SimTank
As a project while learning Java programming, Morn of Executus-EU decided to create a tanking simulator and run some experiments. The simulator, which can be downloaded here, lets the tanking classes input their "to be missed", block, dodge, parry, block value and armor, and run it against the boss's attack damage range and speed. You can also use it to compare how much damage/crushing blows/burst damage paladins, druids and warriors would have while tanking the same fight. As a cool side bonus, the site also shows a "combat log" of the fight against the boss, complete with your hits, misses and damage.
A better theorycrafter than I could have some fun with this, but Morn found that assuming comparable gear, a druid takes 15 percent more damage than a warrior and 10 percent more than a paladin. He notes that it could be a good way for tanks to figure out what stats they need to improve to become better at damage absorption.
Who do you think makes the best tank? What information can you gain from this simulator?
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Fan stuff
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Wargo Apr 24th 2007 1:30PM
As far as raiding is concerned, yes, wars are the top pick. Being a prot war myself, I'm perfectly happy with the way the system is now. Druids and paladins make better tanks than wars in 5-mans, being versatile and able to hold aggro better, which I'm totally cool with. But raiding is my game, and warriors are clearly the best class to choose for that, and rightly so. Unlike druids and paladins, we can't change our roles on the fly and heal or dps when need be. A prot war can tank and nothing else so it only makes sense that he's specialized in it and better than the other classes. As long as that doesn't change I'm happy. The simulator just proves the point that Blizzard knows what they're doing and the tank classes are working as intended.
jaydlawii Apr 24th 2007 1:52PM
@1 A tanks job is to hold aggro and take damage. How is a warrior better if others can hold arrgo better and take more damage? if anything this along with your statement shows that Warriors are lacking in their skills compared to other tanking classes.
Pawlringo Apr 24th 2007 2:02PM
@2 All im saying is shield block, and spell reflect. #1 is right on, the other classes have their places where they shine, but raid tanking is a warriors job.
Ian O'Rourke Apr 24th 2007 2:03PM
Depends on what he means by take...
..if it means the Druid and Paladin can take more total damage then yes, the warrior is in trouble.
...I took it to mean the Drui and Paladin take more damage, as in their HP goes down, while the warrior takes less of a hit on his hp.
Who knows though.
Dahlaine Apr 24th 2007 2:12PM
Warriors are needed for raid tanking because they simply take less burst damage.
Tanks die is raid fights not because they take 200K or 240K damage over 1 minute, they die because they take a crushing hit for 6k and then 3 subsequent hits for 3k. With the warrior's ability to hit shieldblock or last stand or shield wall, they have a greater ability to hold up during these sudden spikes in damage.
Guernia Apr 24th 2007 2:13PM
Warriors can switch to what passes for DPS mode by switching in a 2-hander.
Warriors are hybrids, just like everyone else, only with fewer options (Tank, and DPS).
Paul Apr 24th 2007 2:16PM
@5
You are exactly right, my Prot Paladin just could not take Burst dmg at all. I tanked all of the level 70 instances just fine, however go into Karazhan and some of the mobs just ripped right through me, the same thing happened with any heroic other than Ramparts and Slave Pens. Warriors have great abilities and are perfect for Raid tanking, unfortunately Druids or Paladins are kind of stuck being an off tank for anything other than five man instances.
Dahlaine Apr 24th 2007 2:55PM
I'd also like a reaction from other players on a quick tanking subject.
Our guild has 2 very well geared feral druids. Due to their lack of parry or block, both of them have stacked agility for both the increased threat generation and dodge. Now, one thing they have noticed in Karazhan boss fights is that every minute or so they will take a drastic bomb of hits. This has lead us to postulate that there may be a dodges-per-minute cap on boss mobs. Anyone else heard anything about this?
Is there maybe just a soft cap on dodge mitigation?
Viet Apr 24th 2007 3:00PM
@6,
Wars cannot really switch to DPS mode as switching to a 2h is not enough to call it DPS. Without the rest of the gear that we are so dependent on, having 490+ def and 10% parry/dodge is not going to help DPS.
But yes, I agree with most other statements about burst damage/versatility and what not.
Robert Apr 24th 2007 3:02PM
My druid has tanked every heroic instance and nearly every boss in Karazhan, though I prefer to OT in raids (switching roles mid-fight is fun and makes me feel like Blizzard finally got feral druids right!).
I do know in heroics, druids are the best tanks
because there are no level 73 mobs (e.g. no crushing blows). This results in feral druids having superior mitigation to warriors and paladins as well as superior threat generation and damage output (at least, to warriors).
However once you start fighting 73s and boss-level mobs the dynamics change significantly. Fortunately Blizzard foresaw this issue and creates a lot of niches for feral druids; for example, many fights in Karazhan involve adds that must be OT'd until they die at which point the bear shifts into a cat to dps the main boss. Or a boss like Gruul whose Hurtful Strike mechanic hits the OT for large amounts of physical damage that cannot crush.
I'm very happy with the way ferals are now; I'm desired in raids for my versatility and a top-end tank in all 5 man content.
Robert Apr 24th 2007 3:06PM
@Dahlene - your feral druids are mistaken, they should not be stacking dodge until they have enough armor and stamina to take burst damage without flinching. There is no dodge-per-second cap, what you are noticing is the fact that dodge pushes normal attacks off the table before crushing attacks. So the more dodge you have, the higher the ratio of crushing blows to normal hits taken, giving the appearance of taking even more burst damage.
Make them stack armor and stamina and pick up incidental dodge until they can no longer die within a few seconds. Then they can start picking up dodge again. The main function of dodge in a raid is to conserve healer mana.
Freehugz Apr 24th 2007 3:06PM
Boss hits you for 5794 (crushing).
Boss hits you for 3863
Boss hits you for 5794 (crushing).
Boss hits you for 5794 (crushing).
Boss hits you for 5794 (crushing).
Boss hits you for 5794 (crushing).
... I think I died.
jaydlawii Apr 24th 2007 4:00PM
@3 and @4
Point made, thx.
Wargo Apr 24th 2007 9:20PM
@#2: You're obviously not a tanking class or haven't played one long enough. Yes druids and paladins can hold aggro better, but I'm sorry they CANNOT take more damage. Not in a raid. Read what #10 had to say and you'll understand a bit more. Everything changes in a raid. The ability to withstand crushing blows is what seperates the tanking ability of a warrior to the other two classes, that and having more damage mitigation and ablilities to survive the long fights in a raid. @#6:A prot paladin with a 2h weapon is NOT DPS. Sorry.
@#5 and 10: I'm glad some people understand how the system works and take advantage of what they can still offer. You can't beat a druid or paladin for off tanks and you certainly can't beat them for thier versatility and effectiveness in 5-mans.
Wargo Apr 24th 2007 9:35PM
Is there a way to edit a post? I meant to say prot WAR not pally in my reply to #6 :\
Guernia Apr 25th 2007 12:42AM
No, it isn't, but it's higher DPS than sword + board.
There's also nothing stopping a warrior from swapping out tanking gear for more damage-oriented gear if the need to DPS comes along. again, I know it's not "real" DPS, but it's again better than sword + board and +def gear.
Other hybrids have two or more sets to carry around. Warriors are also hybrids (tank + DPS) and shouldn't shy away from doing the same.
Wargo Apr 28th 2007 4:38AM
@16. When you spec prot, the only real damaging attack you have is shield slam. You lose that ability if you don't have a shield equipped. Heroic strike is nice, but it's tied to your next attack, not an instant attack like mortal strike and bloodthirst. And sure, you can swap gear around but without the spec backing you up it still doesn't make it worthwhile. You might as well swap out with another player and not bother. A warrior is much more limited and nowhere near as effective as a hybrid class like a druid/paladin. Remember, they can heal, wars can't.