Ask WoW Insider: Heroic instance difficulty
by Barb Dybwad 
Apr 27th 2007 at 3:45PM
Welcome once again to Ask WoW Insider, a weekly column that publishes your questions for our readers to answer. This week's question comes from Maedhras of Mannoroth, who wants to know the difficulty order of the heroic dungeons: Here's the question that has me hesitating to take my friends into heroic instances.Which heroics do you find the easiest and most difficult? What would you suggest for players just starting out doing heroics? And relatedly, which do you find much harder than their normal counterparts, and which relatively similar?
What is the correct order of difficulty of Heroic Instances? Is it in any way related to their non-Heroic level (ie. Ramparts would be the easiest, with Arcatraz being the hardest?) (I shudder at the idea of the 2 Sentinel pull in Heroic Arcatraz). From what I've heard, the non-Heroic level is no indication, but I've been able to clear ramparts (what a scam btw, the last boss does not give a badge) and got my buttocks neatly handed to me in a Red Gift Packaging Ribbon in Steam Vaults.
So what's the dealio?
Also, where does Kharazan come in, difficulty wise?
Got questions? Hit us up at ask AT wowinsider DOT com, and we may just publish yours next week.
Filed under: Instances, The Burning Crusade, Ask WoW Insider
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Robert Charron Mar 9th 2008 1:54AM
Well this is all opinion - you just have to find what sort-of fits your groups build and experiance (let's say you have an undergeared healer, then in my opinion, Heroic Slave Pens is the easiest). If it's a CC issue, then Heroic Shattered Halls is the worst. From the way I see it in terms of difficulty over anything that hands you badges, it would be: Heroic Slave Pens, Karazhan (Yes Karazhan. It's the easiest instances at max level probably in the game. As long as you have one or two people who know all the fights well, and either a good geared healer or tank, it's cake. You can get it all done in about 4 hours, and that's 2 epics each boss, 22 badges and fun), then H Sethekk Halls, H Mech, H Steam Vaults, and whatever else (I have only done those instances on all my healer, both my DPS chars and tank, and are easy from all perspectives).
What I usually do when I start going for badges/heroics as soon as I get the keys (which is usually before you hit 70 now a days) is everyday do H SP, H Sethekk, then H Mech (With a good group they should take oh, about 4-5 1/2 hours) and Kara every week. Then once you have decent gear, start trying other instances to see what suits you.
In my experiance, the hardest instances on heroic dificulty have been Heroic Durneholde and Heroic Black Morass. I haven't actually done Heroic Arcatraz, but I get mixed opinions on it so I might try it sometime.
Anyways, I know this article is pretty outdated, but I found it of interest.
Sylythn Apr 27th 2007 4:04PM
Well we may get pwned doing this - but my guild is looking at this issue from the standpoint of which reputation grinds are easiest. In other words, we've got a good chance at many more people being Revered with Cenarion Expedition than we do with Thrallmar early on - so Coilfang is first on our list. From there we hit Auchindoun, Tempest Keep, and Hellfire - in that order. Kara attunement is a parallel path to this - and we've done some alliance runs with other guilds, but we'll need a few heroics in ourselves before we can solo Kara.
Argent Apr 27th 2007 3:56PM
ramparts is a pretty good place to get started. you'll face most all of the obnoxious stuff you'll see in other HMs in there.
easiest (for me) is old hillsbrad -- if you figure out how to deal with the first boss (might take a few tries, but once you do, it's super-easy every time out), but overall, Oh is a breezy 45 min run.
slavepens and steamvaults are pretty easy as well.
hardest (bar none) is shattered halls, which is a wild ride from A to Z.
arcatraz is close in terms of difficulty, but in all reality, i find it more long and boring rather than hard.
Ryan Apr 27th 2007 4:08PM
Just do Mechanar over and over again, easiest 5 badges in the game. Only step into the others when you want a specific drop or you need your Eye or Serpentshrine keys.
Maedhras Apr 27th 2007 4:08PM
Hey that's me!
Thanks for the quick post Barb.
Slylythn, that's pretty much our approach too. I'm just a guy who likes to do things by the book, and there doesn't seem to be a book about heroics, so I'm a little at lost.
Maedhras Apr 27th 2007 4:11PM
Ryan, I'm not doing this for badges, I'm doing this in the 'beat the game' mentality, one step at a time. Which one is the first step though?
Robert Apr 27th 2007 4:19PM
With a good group they are all quite easy and it becomes a factor of time versus rewards. Mechanar is the most rewarding (5 badges/45 minutes) followed by Underbog (4 badges/50 minutes). Shattered Halls is pretty good as well (4 badges/55 minutes). Black Morasss, after 2.1 fixes the current bug, will be worthwhle (3 badges/35 minutes). Basically if you're farming for badges, anything under 1 badge/15 minutes is decent.
With a good group none of the heroics are particularly challenging. They are about inline with Karazhan up to the Opera event. Curator and beyond is more difficult than any heroic.
Quoi Apr 27th 2007 4:33PM
Mechanar is really easy. I would rather shoot myself than step in Shadow Labyrinth again.
Some of them are easy, some are hard. The level of the normal dungeon is no indication. Sethekk Halls, for example, a level 68 dungeon AFAIK, has the first 2 mobs hitting for 6k on cloth.
Try them out, test the waters.
Robert Apr 27th 2007 4:25PM
I am going to recant that actually. Everything past Attumen is more difficult than anything in a heroic in terms of complexity. However, trash mobs in heroics sometimes hit harder than bosses in Karazhan. It's very strange. Still, it's usually simpler dealing with hard hitting trash that can be stunned and CC'd than coordinating 10 people on something like Moroes.
Maedhras if your goal is to 'beat the game', in terms of PvE progression you basically start Karazhan once you finish the 5 mans and do heroics at the same time. There is no order to do them in, they aren't tiered in difficulty, so just pick them in any order and do them.
Doodzin Apr 27th 2007 4:26PM
The only heroic I've tried is slave pens, which is not bad right up to the final boss. We still haven't been able to down him, I suspect, because we need a great deal more Nature Resist than we currently have.
Anyone able to down the final boss in slave pens have any suggestions?
Bod Apr 27th 2007 4:32PM
Rating the heroics serially is hard because some are really easy except for one boss, while others are slogs the whole way through. Here would be my general ratings:
HFC:
Ramparts: Easy. Bring FR gear for last boss
Blood Furnace: Moderate. Three pulls before last boss are extraordinarily difficult if you don't have a lock to CC.
Shattered Halls: Not as hard as some say but still hard.
CFR:
Slave Pens: Easy. NR gear for the tank helps even with the buff. Two CCs help for the pulls to Quag.
Underbog: Moderately easy. Two pulls toward the end more or less require two healers.
Steamvaults: Moderately easy unless you bring a warrior tank, in which case the 2nd boss is a pain.
Auch:
ManaTombs: Hard. A giant mind f**k. Two healers + 300 SR for the tank for Pandy, and the last boss is among the hardest in any heroic. Not a fun instance.
Crypts: Easy.
Sethekk: Easy, bring lots of DPS + your Curator AR gear for the last boss.
Shadow Labs: I can't decide. It helps a lot if your group has already run this instance and knows the fights in and out. Two mages useful for duel CCs on 6-pulls and for murmur.
TK:
Mech: Easy except for 2nd boss.
Botanica: Moderately hard and not that fun.
Arc: Long + I would wait until the patch for the nerf on the last boss. Right now it's just luck as to whether you wipe.
CoT:
Hard and not worth the effort IMO.
bliSSter Apr 27th 2007 4:39PM
Doodzin's and Robert's comments both got me thinking, as I've been contemplating hitting some heroics myself: If the heroics aren't specifically tiered in terms of a progression, are their gear-checks (even in terms of resists) for the different zones? I.e. Should one be focusing on particular resists for different heroic instances (NR for Coilfang, FR for HF citadel, etc.)?
Thanks for all the comments everyone. :)
leee Apr 27th 2007 4:58PM
Assume you know what class / CC is needed. I base my rating on things:
1. The "killer" trash pulls
2. Beating final boss for epic loots
Crypt
Slave Pens
Underbog
Ramparts
Sethekk Hall
Mechanar
Blood Furnace
Steam Vaults
Old Hillsbrad
Shadow Labs
Botanica
Shatterred Halls
Alcatraz
Mana Tomb
Black Morass
Robert Apr 27th 2007 5:00PM
You do not need resistance gear for any heroic. Stack stamina instead, it's a lot easier to create one high stamina set than 4-5 resistance sets. Paladins may NEED resistance sets because of their low base HP, I don't know. But I've tanked every heroic as a feral druid with no resistances but 17-18k hp.
There really is no difficulty tier. It's just that certain heroics are easier with certain classes, so people who always run with the same group will find some harder than others. Another group will find the opposite. Just run them based on the gear you need, or based on what you enjoyed doing on normal.
Melador Apr 27th 2007 5:08PM
Heroics are generally easier than Karazhan, or at least simpler, but are very heavily dependent on class composition. If you don't have sufficient CC (especially in places like SH) or you don't have a well-geared enough tank, they can quickly shift from a smooth 45-minute run to a brutal slog.
We usually firstpull every boss in Karazhan, but due to having non-optimal groups the SH Trial has been an exercise in frustration.
So basically: choose your group wisely, and they shouldn't be too bad after a run or two. Choose poorly and expect trouble. Oh, and friends don't let friends PUG Heroics.
Kyane Apr 27th 2007 5:13PM
At least I'm not the only one that would rather gouge my own eyes out than run heroic Shadow Lab. again.
Quoi Apr 27th 2007 5:35PM
Blackheart just hits too goddamn hard on heroic. The charge for 2k or so, plus a 4-5k melee hit because he won't snap back to the tank is just too much.
Thankfully his melee damage is getting nerfed.
Hoof Apr 27th 2007 5:50PM
I found shadow labs to be a fairly easy Heroic TBH, but our group make up is somewhat interesting and allows for alot of fast dps.
War
Mage
Lock
Shaman (ele)
Shaman (Resto) - me
Two blood lusts and 2 fire elementals in a min and twenty seconds of full out dps.
Shattered halls with that group sucked the big one. We did up to the first boss to get attuned to summon Nightbane and then left. Trash was just overwhelming and the Reavers just hunted me down and two shotted me the entire fight.
I havent even tried Arc yet because I dont want to even think about the two mobs with mindflay at the same time with Heroic Damage.
I think I will start doing Heroics again once they have nerfed them in 2.1, currently for most of the harder instances if you dont take the perfect group it is going to be a long and painful journey. There needs to be a lot more wiggle room so that groups dont spend half the night wiping on trash pulls.
That being said we have been finding that often Trash pulls in SSC are actually more difficult/painful than the bosses after them. Two and a half hours clearing trash for the first time leaves a somewhat bitter taste in your mouth. Would have made me cry had they still been on the 45min respawn timer.
Kaziel Apr 27th 2007 5:54PM
I think Ryan's point is it doesn't really fit into the "beat the game" mentality. Heroics are there for three reasons:
Reason one: To make keying up more of a challenge for those who want it.
Reason two: To give those who don't want to or don't have enough people to raid better gear.
Reason three: To give people who don't want to raid, something harder than just doing the same old 5-mans over and over. May not be radically different, but at least it's something.
Mugnu May 3rd 2007 10:06AM
Having done quite a few heroics i'd have to say i found slave pens the easiest. I'd have to say the hardest in my mind is Old Hillsbrad (i hate the patrols in there >.