Kalgan on class balance in 2.2 and 2.3
There is a huge thread rolling on the forums that starts off with a reference to Tom "Kalgan" Chilton talking about PvP at BlizzCon. There, he said that Warlocks (and other classes) weren't necessarily balanced for 1v1 PvP-- instead, the classes are balanced for arenas (moreso 5v5 than 2v2 and 3v3, but those as well). This, of course, brought a chorus of anger from players-- considering that lots of World PvP is actually 1v1, why should any classes get a break that way?Kalgan, in return, basically says it's one or the other-- there is no way developers can get everything balanced all the way across the board, so they tend to balance as much as possible, which leaves some places where classes are more powerful than others. A little bit of OP, in other words, is acceptable, as long as the other classes have their place to shine as well. I found this to happen at BlizzCon as well-- when the designers explain their position to you, it seems completely reasonable. But when you go back in game, and a Warlock deathcoils you into oblivion, all the nonsense about balance and 1v1 vs. other situations goes right out the window, and you just want them to fix the game again.
At any rate, big changes are coming, says Kalgan, both in 2.2 and 2.3, in terms of class balance (specifically the DoT/Resilience change and the Mace spec nerf). As Boubouille says, it's looking more and more like 2.3 will be a "big" patch, with lots and lots of changes and revisions for each class in the works.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, News items
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
QQ Aug 21st 2007 2:47PM
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CVJ Aug 21st 2007 2:49PM
Well spoke, the wow forums are full of "so and so is OP" but if every class was truly balanced there would be no need for different classes.
I just hate when Blizzard nerfs something that is useful in raids because of people crying about it in PVP.
blah Aug 21st 2007 2:53PM
So besides vs Rogues, Hunter and Warriors Warlocks are overpowered?
I dont get it. I have never been feared for more than a 10 seconds as a Warrior vs a Warlock. Deathcoil does have a cool down time so your not being deathcoiled like crazy either.
Theadrick Aug 21st 2007 2:54PM
The thing that continually bugs me about "class balance" is that the PVE game suffers because of PVP "balance".
mr perfect Aug 21st 2007 2:54PM
are you kidding me? (checks calender for April 1st)
The game is NOTHING about 1v1. the whole point of the game is MMO. They need to balance the game (through itemization) so that no class is TOO good by just pressing 4 DOTs and a fear (or equal). The whole idea as I see it, with introducing resilience was to balance PVP a bit. But they failed by "forgetting" DOTs.
p.s. NERF MS.
mr perfect Aug 21st 2007 2:55PM
@2 : you Sir, are an idiot, please go to a offline game.
twh Aug 21st 2007 3:02PM
Funny balance should be mentioned, because the irony is that because Warriors were able to go anywhere freely because of Paladins' Blessing of Freedom in Arena, said blessing gets nerfed because of warriors.
Yeah, that's balance.
Chris Aug 21st 2007 3:17PM
People will always find a class to complain about being overpowered.
Blizzard will always continue to make changes to rectify this, resulting in cries of 'Nerf' directed at another class.
Q: How do we fix this?
A: Tell the whiners to stfu!
99% of the time, the actual problem is, people don't know how to play their F*&^ing class.
Chilldo Aug 21st 2007 3:20PM
I just want my 10% spell coefficient nerf back.
harriet tubman Aug 21st 2007 3:27PM
The arenas are ruining this game. All the nerf threads on the forums are by people not skilled or smart enough to do good in arenas. They ban together and start crying until they get classes nerfed because they can't get their gladiator gear fast enough.
I also think Blizzard needs to moderate the forums a lot better. If they started getting rid of all the nerf threads, banning people who troll, and had the CM's actually answer legitimate questions the forums would actually be a useful tool.
Preston Aug 21st 2007 3:30PM
People complain about warlocks to distract everybody so they don't make any threads complaining about druid cyclones, warrior mortal strike, etc.
robotrock Aug 21st 2007 3:30PM
Arenas are pointless...I'm curious as to what percentage of players actually play Arenas on a regular basis...
If they can't balance pvp for the most common situations (1v1 world pvp), then another game developer can.
ElitistJerk Aug 21st 2007 3:33PM
All of these problems have gotten worse because of the introduction of Arenas.
Balancing for such ruins World pvp, battlegrounds, as well as PvE Raiding.
It's nice that a game like WoW let's anyone do whatever they want endgame. It give something for everyone. Unfortunately it seems Blizzard is making Arena more of a priority than dungeons and raiding. Which for me is what the game is all about. Raiding dungeons is the backbone of Wow, plain and simple. Arena is nice for welfare epics and some tournaments, but to compromise PvE and other such balance? Blizzard needs to remember this.
Personally, my patience grows thinner with each attempt at 'balance'.
Lykaon Aug 21st 2007 3:35PM
I thought it at Blizzcon and I stand by it today. I think Tom Chilton completely has his head around the game and all of his answers were extremely reasonable and fair.
It's a big game, and they do an awesome job. If you get killed by a warlock, QQ. It happens.
I'm on a PVP server, and in a lot of ways I love it for the faction unity that exists, but most days I just hate it.
It's impossible to make everything balanced, and the sooner everyone realizes that the better.
If you don't like that warlocks are OP, roll a warlock and then there's nothing to cry about I say.
Instead, I love my Ret Paladin even if she is subpar compared to other classes. It's about fun. And I have fun. And if a warlock kills me 1v1, I rez and go on my way. I don't curse Tom Chilton for trying to keep a huge game together.
The guy came across to me as extremely capable and knolwedgeable and I gained a lot of respect for him after hearing him in the Blizzcon Panels.
Morrigän Aug 21st 2007 3:56PM
Blizz's way to "balance" the game: nerf a class, raise another, rinse, repeat each 2 months.
I'm a warlock. Do whatever you want with my class: remove fear, nerf DoTs, cut SB damage by half, turn us into turtles, whatever, I couldn't care less. But just do it all on PvP and don't mess with PvE.
Btw, I really pity those that take WoW's PvP seriously... Lrn2GuildWars already.
Doomkin Aug 21st 2007 3:58PM
@ 14)
Well said.
squishy Aug 21st 2007 4:00PM
These idiots are well on their way to destroy the game.
False, lying, deceiving developers.
and to all sucking up to "TOM" you are either a moron or play a class that doesn't have problems (warlock).
Trunade Aug 21st 2007 4:09PM
Everyone has their opinions on what's OP. When a particular skill gets nerfed because it's too strong in PVP does NOT mean that people will no longer progress in raids. You learn to deal with it and then play like the change never even took place.
Karl Aug 21st 2007 4:13PM
General statements (I am sure that you are the exception to the following because you won the World Championship of Games Tourney all by yourself):
Warlocks - Wears cloth and is easily killed, not a big burst killer and certainly not OP. Hunters and Rogues kill them fast.
Rogues - Easily killed by Paladins / Warriors / Hunters / Shaman (given that they know how to play)
Hunters - In a BG, they are nearly unstoppable, in Arena they are not so hot. Up close and personal is the way to take them out. Send in a warrior or a paladin
Warrior - Brutal in Arena, almost worthless in a BG. Hunters can tear them apart in a BG environment, as can mages/locks/etc.
Paladins - Yeah, they bubble, but the ones who know how, can fight well too. They are tough to beat 1v1. Go down like nothing with a group on them and are vulnerable to burst damage.
Mage - Good burst damage, but still wear cloth. Any class can tear them apart BG or Arena if they can get to them (stealth rogue, charging warrior)
Priest - Shadow DPS is scary, but see the Warlock comments. Pretty much in the same boat.
Druid - Other than Warsong, do people actually PvP with them? The post about the finalists in the latest tourney showed ZERO teams with one on them.
Shaman - I love fighting Shammies. Good challenge. Like any other class, if they are good, they can hold their own...bad ones die quick.
Point of this comment is that ANY class is killable. People boo and hiss about Warlocks, Rogues, Hunters and Warriors being OP in PvP. Learn to overcome them. You have to be prepared to fight them. Just like they need to be prepared to fight you. Team makeup can determine who wins. Going against a double pally combo with two rogues...not a good idea. Two rogues vs. two locks...instant win.
If you think a Warlock wins by casting DoTs and then fear, think again. Warriros have to set you up for kills, and have to worry about spell damage tearing them apart. Everyone is vulnerable.
Also, take comments like mine with a grain of sand. I am not able to say this is true about every class, because people play differently. I actually had a Rogue that took out my Pally (first and last time). I had a Shaman kill my Warlock (it was close and a damn fun fight). You get the point. It’s a general claim. Give the OP talk a rest.
Karl Aug 21st 2007 4:18PM
Before someone comments on the "grain of sand" statement, yes, I meant a "grain of salt."