Breakfast Topic: How much grind can a grind hound grind?
by Dan O'Halloran 
Sep 16th 2007 at 8:00AM
First we grind the levels. Then we grind the faction. Then we grind the gold. Then we grind the instances for high end loot drops. We also grind out Arena points, crafting levels, bandages for the war (remember those!), potions for the raid, ogres for the Talbulk mount and the daily quests for the flying space ray manta aether thingie from space.Where does one draw the line? I usually don't run an instance more than 2 or 3 times. Nor do I kill the same thing continuously for faction. I was enjoying daily quests, but they really are just the same thing every day.
A little grind is ok, but too much makes the game not fun and are we not here to be entertained? Where do you draw the line in the grind that is the base mechanic of most MMORPGs out there?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Tyler Sep 16th 2007 9:00AM
The whole problem is that we tend to have this notion that we HAVE to grind. Why not just do enough just for the sake of enjoyment and not forcing ourselves to constantly repeat the actions again and again , ad infinitum? The game will NEVER be fun for you if you keep this mindset.
It really is somewhat a mirror metaphor for life. You work you ass off day after day for a certain deadline, or a certain paper thinking yes you will be happy after finishing that, only to have yet another task at hand for you.
Erik Sep 16th 2007 9:01AM
I draw the line when I get bored.. When the Netherdrake & Daily quests launched the only thing I did for 3/4 days in a row was grind, grind and grind some more. those eggs were addictive grinding! but now with work and all back again I tend to not grind at all and just take it easy, it's just how much I can do within a few hours.
kidsmoke Sep 16th 2007 8:58AM
It depends on what the grind is for. If your a Blood Elf and you really want that cool undead mount then I see no problem with putting in the grinding work for it.
The Paladin and Warlock quests for their summonable level 60 epic mounts are also reasonable.
But two things that irk me to no end are the reputation grinds so that you can RUN heroics, (not bad for TK and CE, but a real pain in the ass for Thrallmar and Lower City) ...and the gold grind to get the epic flying skill. Gold grind is MUCH MUCH worse if you take a crafting profession, because by the time you finish your crafting set you will be broke and totally not want to farm again for 5000g. Some may consider the epic flyer a cosmetic upgrade but I do not, and if you don't belive so then go back to your original level 40 mount.
SaxxonPike Sep 16th 2007 9:04AM
It's only a grind to me when it's painful. Otherwise, I call it "gradual effort". Chip in a little here and a little there until you have what you want. Granted it's not as fast as sitting there endlessly working it like a second job. But you'll have more fun.
Aaron Sep 16th 2007 9:04AM
Yeah i agree, grinding wears on ya mind and ability to enjoy the pinnacle of all games [WoW]...I feel forced to create brand new characters to "enjoy" myself again.
When I sign on anymore, all I enjoy are Dungeons, but its very difficult for me to get in a group, and when i do its likely not a place i "need" for pieces or whatnot. Which, forces me to look at 5-person "needed" classes such as tanks, healer-specs, and mages, bringing me back to starting over (which gets old in the 20's).
I am stuck at 365 in my profession because the grinding of reagents is driving me nuts, and the AH prices are insane. I just reached 3K pieces of G, but now with the announcement of the ban on flying mounts in WLK (till 78), i have stopped grinding for the 5K i need for epic flying. So....I am kinda just floating around.
I hope with the advent of increased exp and the decrease of total exp needed to level, it will jumpstart the 21-58 stretch and stimulate me to bring a couple more to the fold.
sorry for such a long comment.
Jp Sep 16th 2007 9:36AM
I played SWG before WoW.
Every grind WoW has to offer is pretty tame in comparison(Except WSG/AB rep grinds, now that the marks can't be turned-in). I grind whatever I can.
Ben Abraham Sep 16th 2007 10:10AM
Simple formula to calculate whether or not to grind rep:
> 1
Quality of Reward ===== > 111
--------------- > 1
Time * Tediousness ===== > 1
> 1111
Gosh I hope the above post works out.... :P
Steve Sep 16th 2007 10:22AM
I've a really low grinding threshold, one day of grinding for anything at all is as much as I can stomach but then since I stupidly chose BS way back and never kept on top of it, I find I'm having to go back to much lower levels just to farm ore which usually makes me want to quit.
When you have a full time plus a part time job, other hobbies, kids and pets your time is sooo precious so the game *must* supply fun on demand anbd grinding for rep just ain't it.
I'm *supposed* be grinding for BS for tanking kit and Kara attuning and saving for my flying mount but oddly have spent the last fortnight levelling new alts rather than go in and grind.
There's a strong possibility that I may not actually play my main until the next expansion now because of it which would be a real shame, but right this minute the last thing I want to do is go do a run round Ungoro again to farm ore...
nirikun Sep 16th 2007 11:05AM
It all depends on how you look at it. I am grinding at a part-time job to save up enough money for a new laptop. The grind itself in and of itself is rather boring and tedious, but not nearly as bad if you take it in stride and remember what you're working for.
Even the reportedly terrible heroic grind is really not that bad, considering I just recently completed it. Take it slowly and rationally. Run the instance every 1 or 2 days, do it with friends, enjoy the instance itself, and you'll be revered in no time.
All of life is full grinding. But if you enjoy WoW, grinding really shouldn't be that much of a problem. "Learn to love your work, and you'll never have to work again."
BillDoor Sep 16th 2007 11:06AM
Grind as long as you're having fun. I've done a few grinds, and I mostly did them when my friends weren't on, and I just wanted to relax. I've also worked on them as I was waiting to be swapped in on a raid.
If you're not having fun, go do something else, plain and simple.
Mal Sep 16th 2007 11:18AM
Here is a grand idea, your gonna love this.
How about noone has to work for anything and we can all just sit in Ironforge/Orgrimmar all day and gold gets mailed to us?
This way if you want that sweet epic flyer that you cant live without (but wont grind for)its no problem.
Also as far as heroics go why the hell not let everyone rush in from day 1 if they want, I mean seriously if you've ever PUG a group for a normal difficulty dungeon then you must know how equally qualified everyone is for a heroic :(
And last but not least reputation grinds and epic items, the solution for this is very simple, no factions to grind whatsoever just 1 vendor you stands in the middle of shattrath and sells every piece of equipment in the game from the seers signet ring to the warblades of azzinoth.
Hows that sound? No grind and no challenge at all...
Wulfhere Sep 16th 2007 11:29AM
Yes, Mal, clearly the options are we either do no grinding at all or we grind endlessly, there can be no middle ground. We couldn't have *slightly less grinding*, we must either have the amount already in the game or we must have none. It's a polar binary state, all grinding or no grinding.
My word, but you're just breathtakingly stupid.
Zakk Sep 16th 2007 11:47AM
I quit grinding when I get what I want. Whether it's the reward from grinding, or the promise of rest from laying off WoW for a couple days.
I've forced myself to play WoW before, and I got sick of it. I quit at level 43 for a couple months, and I learned something from that. Take a break when you want to take a break. If I had done that, I wouldn't have had a few months where listening to music that I listened to while playing WoW, or seeing a WoW screenshot, made me cringe.
@11's post: I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think of grinding as a challenge. More like an annoyance. When I think challenge, I think completing high-end raids for epik l00tz. Not running around in circles and clicking mobs. It's kinda like the difference between Halo 2's Legendary mode, and H3's (yeah, I probably shouldn't be bringing up console FPSs on an MMORPG website, but I'ma do it anyway, 'cause I phail), if you're following the development of that game.
Hank Sep 16th 2007 11:57AM
Easiest grind? Nagrand Ogres. I only killed about 4000 of them, but I got those nice beads which I turned in for Consortium rep. So I got two factions for the price of one. The only thing I got from Kurenai was the mount, but Consortium rep was well worth it for the pants and dagger.
Trying for Cenarion rep now, but no one wants run heroics in my guild.
Mal Sep 16th 2007 12:07PM
Where is this endless grinding you speak of? It takes me at most 90min a day to do the 6 daily quests in skettis/ogri'la. As for the other "grinds" if you dont have the time/will to do alot per day then do it in little chunks its not like your reputation level decays if you dont endlessly grind.
If you take grinding away completely and get the rewards by doing a difficult quest instead you would still have people crying about how hard the quest is.
If you shorten grinds to a very managable level to satisfy the 1 hour a day casual gamer then you have the more hardcore gamer blowing through it in a day or two.
So give me your ideas of how you would handle it since your so damn smart and im "breathtakingly stupid"?
Fletch Sep 16th 2007 12:26PM
At least hardcore raiders get some new content. Everyone else gets to grind bird people so that they can then go grind some invisible bird people. I understand that some grinding will always be a part of any MMORPG, just because they can't release content fast enough (and Blizzard is slower than anyone else). But it'd be nice if they threw the non-raiders a bone every once in a while.
John Vilsack Sep 16th 2007 1:59PM
From a logistical standpoint, grinding doesn't make sense.
Assuming a plausible reality for your character, you should only be killing a "named" mob once. How exactly does it make sense that additional areas in the game open up and become available after you slog your way to kill Murmur then you have to do so again? How exactly is he alive yet again?
Are we playing World of Warcraft or Groundhog Day?
Heraclea Sep 16th 2007 1:04PM
As a miner, I farm ore for money, and run only those couple of daily quests that can be done very quickly and with minimal combat.
I actually enjoy farming ore. It takes me into very little travelled zones of the game, fighting mobs that few people fight anymore. And since I am 70 and they are a bunch of 60s tops, even elites, fighting them makes me feel as powerful as I think my character ought to be.
Sylythn Sep 16th 2007 1:17PM
I'll clear an area of rep mobs once - maybe go back over it on my way out, but that's it. I'll farm elementals until I get 1 primal of each - even that's sometimes too much. I'll run an instance 2-3 times in a row. And I'll do dailies...almost never again unless I'm really out of other ways to make money.
I started doing dailies - I liked them...and then, my worst fears came true. The whole reason I had put off doing daily quests for so long was that I was convinced they would become chores (and I get enough of that with my apt) - and sure enough, after about a week of the same thing day after day - it became a chore. Something I had to do, but something I hated to do. There is 0 variety to them...no new challenge, nothing new and interesting. Just the same neverending events without seeing any results. It's the whole "we killed Rags 50 times now, why is MC still there?" times 100.
Thankfully I still have shadowmoon quests to do - but once those run out...ugh. I *almost* prefer straight up farming elementals or other mobs to doing daily quests...that's not good.
Replex Sep 16th 2007 1:44PM
Yeah, I agree completely that this and really all other MMOs just turned into a grinding game, who can devote the most time toward something that means almost nothing.
WoW is a game, but alot of people treat it like a job, spend 2 hours a night farming so you can raid with all your flasks, pots, etc.
It gets dull.