Paying your dues with guild taxes
Now that guild banks are incoming to the game, what's missing from our little virtual economy system? Taxes! That's what Noplat suggests, anyway-- he says that now that guilds have a place to store up their own central banks, the next step is to require payments from guild members for various guild running costs.I'm not quite sure I agree-- most guilds don't require anything like this. The biggest costs I can think of simply involve raiding repairs, and not only is not every member of every guild involved with raiding, but repair costs aren't that big a deal anyway, especially with daily quests throwing out money for just a few minutes' work. There may be costs coming in the game (guild housing would obviously require a lot of money, and we still haven't been told how siege weapons might work in guild battlegrounds-- will we have to buy those?), but at this point, we don't really need guild taxes or membership fees.
The closest thing my guild ever did to a membership tax is that they ask everyone to pay a few g to any engineer that drops a repair bot during a raid (to cover those costs), but considering how the new instances are set up, I haven't seen a repair bot need to be dropped for a long time anyway. Does your guild need enough money to require membership fees or taxes? And if so, for what? Potions?
Filed under: Guilds, Odds and ends, Raiding, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Vestras Oct 17th 2007 10:45AM
Well, in other games with guild banking, the costs usually go towards getting stuff the guild needs, mats/recipies, potions, things of that nature. Repair costs for the tanks would be a useful one. You could also do a lotto/dkp/reward system where you pay guild dues which then can be used to get stuff like expensive purple gems, or even epic flyers for guildies on a lotto system.
I don't see any point in making it mandatory in WoW since the only truly expensive items are luxuries. In EVE, corp tax was fundamental to keeping your corp running and helping players get back on their feet after having a ship blown out from under them.
Runstadrey Oct 17th 2007 10:54AM
Our guild has asked that higher level players kick in a few G per week to a mount fund so that when players hit 40 they don't have to beg everybody to buy their mount. I'm not sure I totally agree with this, I scrimped & saved and ran from SW & IF to STV/BB instead of flying in order to save up my mount money.
But, I kicked in the first week, we'll see about next week.
Tridus Oct 17th 2007 11:02AM
This simply isn't necessary. If you're one of the few guilds who actually wants to impose fees on your members, do it yourself. The vast majority don't do this, and it'd be ripe for abuse if the game could enforce it.
@2 - If you have a gathering profession its dirt easy to pay for a mount on your own now. AH prices are so inflated that Iron sells for 10g a stack.
Ahoni Oct 17th 2007 11:05AM
I have no trouble helping out a guild member. I have donated herbs, motes, cloth, transmutes etc. I trade and barter all the time with guild members, and have received lots in return.
Our tireless guild leader spends so much of her time on the guild, she doesn't have the time to farm or do dailies, and doesn't have any money to get her new purples enchanted. I have no problem just giving her a pile of gold to keep her going because she does so much for us.
I would, however, /gquit in an instant if there was a guild tax. Would never happen in our guild, I'm just saying.
nate Oct 17th 2007 11:05AM
At the very least, it could go to more bag spaces in the guild vault.
Hexadecimal Oct 17th 2007 11:08AM
No, I don't want any form of the word "tax" in the game it would only invite trouble from the government.
TotalBiscuit Oct 17th 2007 11:17AM
This is a perfectly normal thing and I'm highly surprised it isn't in the game already. Many other MMOs and even browser based games have guild/clan/gal/team etc tax systems which allow a percentage of each player's daily income to be skimmed off the top and into the guild coffers to pay for the things the guild needs as a whole. While it's not like you can build Guild Halls or anything so cool within WoW, any raiding guild that is on the progress trail knows the costs of raiding. Flasks, potions, buff-foods and repair costs stack up very high when you're in a guild on the progress trail and it's not like you're not benefitting from being in the guild.
Anything to make it easier and more effecient to 'give something back' to the guild is welcome in my book.
Kadaan Oct 17th 2007 11:25AM
Taxes are a horrible idea. We just send all BoE items that drop in guild runs (both raids and 5-mans) to the guild bank. We always have tons of enchanting mats to give free enchants to everyone in the guild, BoE blues and recipes noone needs are generally sold off.
Most of our members are constantly donating mana pots to healers, I sent a stack of 5 fort flasks to our 2 MT's last week, every time I've ever needed primals to craft something I just asked in guild and someone gave them to me free of charge. Imposing a guild tax would be a slap in the face to our already generous members.
CauthonDM Oct 17th 2007 11:28AM
While my guild has never had a tax, we raise money in two ways. Firstly every item that drops in a rostered, raid instance is guild property. This goes from green items to BoE epics (although the latter are offered to the guild first). This generates a solid stream of income.
Secondly if there is ever urgent need for gold or items, we just ask for donations. This could be gold, a needed item from the AH, farmed mats, a transmute, or whatever you can spare. I've always found people to be generous and whatever is needed collected very quickly.
seankreynolds Oct 17th 2007 11:30AM
{Our guild has asked that higher level players kick in a few G per week to a mount fund so that when players hit 40 they don't have to beg everybody to buy their mount.}
This still boggles me. It is SO easy to make money in this game if you don't throw away money buying 733T blues for your character. My level 29 paladin on Icecrown has *90g* already, and that's after passing out about 10-20g to lowbie friends. And he's my first character on this server, I normally play on Bronzebeard but rolled on Icecrown to play with work friends. Anyone who has to beg for money -- or any guild that requires you to pay money to the guild on a regular basis -- is lazy, stupid, or just wasteful.
Ren Oct 17th 2007 11:31AM
High-end raiding entails a number of costs that guild banks can help to solve. For example:
# Respeccing - Prot warriors are absolutely necessary for raiding, but they're not very useful in the Arena, while farming, or for a range of other activities in Azeroth. So instead of looking for a warrior who's a fanatical prothead, guilds will often bear the cost of respeccing them once a week (for a couple of contiguous raiding days).
# Resist Gear - Hydross requires tanks with resist gear. Parts of Black Temple require an entire raid to be decked out in crafted resist gear. That's expensive, and I think it's reasonable for everyone to contribute to those costs, since everyone will ultimately benefit from the lewts.
# Gearing Alts - Your guild needs a resto druid, and one of your solid warlocks happens to have a level 70 druid alt. Instead of going to the meat market that is /General, the the warlock agrees to switch to his alt when needed. The guild might be reasonably asked to help out in gearing/enchanting that toon for the good of the guild.
In general, I think the rule should be that Guild Bank funds should be considered for costs that help the entire guild, even if the money is being spent on only a few people.
ajima Oct 17th 2007 11:33AM
@ 7 - Couldn't agree with you more! Raiding costs, you wanna raid then this shouldn't be a burden at all.....ref the article....
" The biggest costs I can think of simply involve raiding repairs, and not only is not every member of every guild involved with raiding, but repair costs aren't that big a deal anyway "
As far as not every member of the guild rading, oh well.... I pay taxes for roads I will never use....thats life....and I beg to differ, repair costs are a very big deal, especially when learning new fights and going through the number of instances that the game offers until you have it down to "grind" status....
Just my opinion
unchi Oct 17th 2007 11:34AM
all these examples have been voluntary taxes. giving free mana potions to a healer is basically the same as being tax "x" gold that is used by the guild to create the mana potions for the healers.
the only reason taxes are important is to prevent the 'free-rider' effect. a tank should not be forced to use more % of his money on a daily mission to repair then any other member of the raid. this slush fund would also help your guild buy resources that may have been the responsibility of individual members before.
a free mount fund though is bullcrap. unless of course low-level characters put in the same amount as higher-level characters. a person who puts in less than everyone and pulls out more is the same as a free-rider.
unchi Oct 17th 2007 11:35AM
all these examples have been voluntary taxes. giving free mana potions to a healer is basically the same as being tax "x" gold that is used by the guild to create the mana potions for the healers.
the only reason taxes are important is to prevent the 'free-rider' effect. a tank should not be forced to use more % of his money on a daily mission to repair then any other member of the raid. this slush fund would also help your guild buy resources that may have been the responsibility of individual members before.
a free mount fund though is bullcrap. unless of course low-level characters put in the same amount as higher-level characters. a person who puts in less than everyone and pulls out more is the same as a free-rider.
Insurgence Oct 17th 2007 11:43AM
The only reason why I would accept a guild tax is to help repay those who put in the most to the guild. Such as those who make/buy potions for raids. Those little professions that so few people seem to put effort in beyond leveling, at least when it comes to raiding, yet everyone seems to have a need for. Buy putting in a tax like that will allow the people to be at least refunded for the non-farmable ingredients. But at the same time, I feel that each guild member should work something out that allows them to get what they need. For MC, and parts of BWL, I purchased all of my fire protection pots from the AH, and in mass quantities. All I needed to do was farm gold for them. This took the pressure off of those who actually do make pots for the raids by not having to supply me with pots. In a few circumstances when a pot or other profession consumable that I or my raid group felt was needed for a specific raid was not available, or available at cheap enough prices or large enough quantities, I would find someone who could make that consumable and arrange something with them.
Basically, there really should not be a need for a guild tax. Everyone who contributes to the cost of a raid, should naturally be contributing to refund those costs.
Malyfactian Oct 17th 2007 11:50AM
*This still boggles me. It is SO easy to make money in this game if you don't throw away money buying 733T blues for your character. My level 29 paladin on Icecrown has *90g* already, and that's after passing out about 10-20g to lowbie friends. And he's my first character on this server, I normally play on Bronzebeard but rolled on Icecrown to play with work friends. Anyone who has to beg for money -- or any guild that requires you to pay money to the guild on a regular basis -- is lazy, stupid, or just wasteful.*
Quoted for truth.
I am personally opposed to the idea of guilds charging their members a tax. Cooperation is one thing - forcing your members to contribute to "teh Greater Good" is another. Too much like communist philosophy for my tastes.
Then again, everything about this game is voluntary - no one is forcing anyone to be in this or that guild, and anyone joining is obligated to abide by the rules. If a guild wants to charge a tax on its members - fine. I just won't be joining that guild. :-)
Bart Oct 17th 2007 11:59AM
Well if thought out well, I think the tax would be a good idea. It would add more of a dynamic to the game. Matter of fact it could be done in such a way that 10 or 5 percent of any gold you get/pick up (except for trades) goes to the guild bank. Matter of fact, Blizz should make the AH fees you pay as a tax that goes into the guildbank. Its a sort of tax, and the guild benefits. I'm sure then my guild would let my bank mule in :).
And since were talking about having taxes, why not have a "savings" account in teh guild banks that accrue interest? It would motivate people more to put money into the guildbank. Matter of fact why cant I have this for my bank? Instead of running around with a few K gold I could be getting interest on it
Mike Schramm Oct 17th 2007 12:12PM
Heh, Chad, you're kind of right, but I'm trying to make *interesting* stories out of forum posts, not boring ones. Thanks for reading.
Malyfactian Oct 17th 2007 12:13PM
@17
Who would pay the interest on the savings accounts? Would it magically appear from within the game mechanics (thus screwing with the natural economy)? ;-)
Sorry, but a tax is a terrible idea, IMHO. If so many are worried about compensation for trade among guildmates, why not set up private, guild specific, member-only shops or AHs? This would be a better way for the consumers to acquire the items they need, and for the producers to be adequately compensated. And this way no one "carries" anyone else.
Bart Oct 17th 2007 12:24PM
@ 20
With all the fees payed for AH transactions, all the money spent on vendor repairs and consumables/trade goods, I see plenty of sources from which the interest in money in banks could come from.