Breakfast Topic: Battle of the battlegrounds
In The Burning Crusade, Blizzard implemented the Eye of the Storm, brinding the number of battlegrounds up to four. They each manage to create an interesting dichotomy in the playerbase. You either love a battleground, or you hate it. Personally, I adore Alterac Valley and Eye of the Storm. I hate, hate, hate Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin. Most of my friends hate AV and love WSG. And of course, there's always the people that hate them all. My first question to all of you is, where do the battlegrounds lie in your mind? Which do you adore, which do you loathe? Second, Wrath of the Lich King will be bringing us another battleground. We don't know anything about it, but what would you like to see? What do you think we'll get? Personally, I would like to see some sort of urban warfare. Maybe Warsong Gulch style Capture the Flag, but placed in a village rather than a wide open field. Instead of the flag carrier and their pursuers running through an open field, they need to weave between buildings and through alleys. It would probably make hiding way too easy, but I still think it's a fun concept.
Again, here's your questions for today: Which battlegrounds do you love, which do you hate, and what new battleground do you think is coming our way in Wrath?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Breakfast topics, Expansions, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Resmarted May 25th 2008 8:18AM
I think a good idea would be to have different maps for each BG like arena, I really hate AV but love the other's i think that AV wouldnt be so bad if people actually played and didnt stand on the roads waiting for fights as far as i know there is no advantage to fighting on roads.
Nati May 25th 2008 8:19AM
We already know what kind of battleground we're getting in WotLK. They've said it'll be an invasion D-Day style scenario, and since they're taking their BG ideas from shooters it'll probably be like Assault mode in Unreal Tournament.
But I have a feeling we'll be getting more than one anyway.
ramz May 25th 2008 8:20AM
you turned alliance and horde signs around :/
jumb May 25th 2008 8:20AM
As a hunter, the idea of an urban warfare style battleground just makes me sad in the pants.
Super Guest Man 9000 May 25th 2008 8:22AM
The new BG, though only fragmented overviews and maybe one or two videos, looks interesting so far as an up hill battle complete will many a wall and gate blocking the way. This, i think at least, adds some viability to the idea of a new assault BG. Also I saw some pics for a "reskinned" Ab where everythings snowy. Same BG and lay out and all that but its christmas time in arathi.
Jmsbrtms May 25th 2008 8:24AM
You are correct #2 there is no advantage to fighting on the road. Such as scattering their forces, breaking momentum, or delaying reinforcements. Defense in depth has surly never worked. imo.
SaintStryfe May 25th 2008 8:29AM
Well, as the ATTACKING force, there's no reason to fight on the road. If you're on D, you want to fight away from the flag, in case you're defense falls, you have a chance to regroup.
I'm sure the Red Army would have loved to fight the Germans in front of Stalingrad, not in the streets. But you do what you gotta do.
Aler May 25th 2008 8:32AM
I love AB, enjoy AV and EotS, and hate WSG. I like battlegrounds where the goals are achievable through coordinated work (though I never play premades), and in which I get to do some fighting.
This is what I'd like to see more of in a new BG. The current battlegrounds are designed around strategic thinking, only fighting the enemy when you have a large advantage in numbers. Therefore, while the was might be fair, all the individual battles are lopsided. If you're on defense and outnumbered, you can delay the enemy, but you seldom can defeat them.
My best BG fights have been in AV when the entite Horde and Alliance forces converge on a single chokepoint, and the battle becomes a fight of inches. We move forward a bit, the enemy pushes us back, and the fight is won on kills, not NPC kills.
I'd like to see one battleground that eliminates the gimmicks of towers and flags and resources and gives a pure, even fight. My dream BG would be a long canyon, like thousand needles, or a troll city. Allies would be at one end, Horde at the othere, and there would be effectively one path, one chokepoint. This could be an elaborate path, with nooks for ambushes and bridges and overhangs for sniping, but it should be impossible to avoid the enemy.
This BG would have a simple point structure - in the middle of the screen is a bar (like the tower capture bars in EotS), with Alliance on one side, Horde on the other. Every time a Horde kills an Ally, the bar moves to their side, and every time an Ally kills a Horde, it would move tthe other way. The first team to get the bar all the way to their side wins. Bonus points given for doing this quickly, and if there is no winner after 20 minutes, the points go to whichever team is closest. This would be fun as a 40 v 40 match.
This distills PVP to the purest element - killing more of them than they kill of you, in a fair fight.
SaintStryfe May 25th 2008 8:39AM
I'd like to see something like Grand Theft Auto SA's turf wars.
You have a map with small areas controlled by the factions, with a larger number of neutral spaces in the middle. Initial captures of neutral land are done by timer (like how you get the nodes in EotS, except faster). You capture enemy territory by killing the opponent in that space, or by standing in enemy territory for long periods unmolested. Each enemy kill in territory you control gives your side more control and makes it harder for your opponent to take it away. Victory is archived when one side gains a majority of the board. Each segment has some environmental quirks - water hazards, damage-causing spouts (steam or fire or something), open lava, houses, ect. Some scattered powerups - life refills, berzerker rage, ect. exist on the board.
I would see this as a 20-person engagement, 10 per side. It's kinda like Risk a little bit.
mcsaeki May 25th 2008 8:51AM
A few minor differences aside, didn't you just describe AV?
SaintStryfe May 25th 2008 9:38AM
not at all. AV is a fight for nodes. How many people you kill is entire inconsequential. IF you really wanted to, you could have an AV sans killing. Mine, while that's theoretically possible, would be much more difficult. As I mentione,d think of it like Risk. AV is nothing like Risk.
Manatank May 25th 2008 2:06PM
Inconsequential? Apparently you've never been in a turtle. I've slaughtered enough horde on the Dun Baldar bridge to win more than one AV. Frost trap might just be the best defensive ability in the game.
onetrueping May 25th 2008 8:49AM
I'd like to see a team deathmatch game backed up by squads of NPCs on a decent respawn timer, so they attack in waves. Seems fitting for the war zones there already are for Wrath.
fLUx May 25th 2008 8:50AM
I would simply like to see a big arena deathmatch! ;)
Basically any kind of map, but no real objectives other than to kill the other fraction. Respawn times will grow over time, you really don't want to die! Also, your durability falls as you are fighting, so within 5 mins your down to 0% and need to go back to your base for a free repair. (of course at the end of the match everyone's durability will be restored to what ever it was before they entered.)
Basically like a war, and you could use the siege weapons we are getting to knock down the shelter buildings which the other team is repairing in....if more than X members are dead at the same time, the other team wins!
What do ya think?
AKWildhammer May 25th 2008 9:02AM
Best suggestion so far
Sundae May 25th 2008 8:53AM
I know it won't happen for awhile, if ever, but I'd be glad to see Azshara Crater finished and available.
Elmo May 25th 2008 9:01AM
Headquarters like in Call of Duty.
setting: Urban
a object spawns on a random place in the map and you have to find the place and keep it as long as possible for your team (you get points for the length of time you keep it)
the other team has to try to destroy the item.
when the item has been destroyed a new one spawns.
Vektorix May 25th 2008 9:13AM
I love the IDEA of Alterac Valley, and I regret I wasn't really high enough to play in AV before the changes. I recognize why they were done, but AV now is no longer a strategic chessboard with in-BG quests, turn-ins, trade-offs and coordinated attacks - it's simply a race to take towers, kill sub-bosses, and then finish off the enemy's leader. It's still a battleground I can be relatively proficient at while in PvE spec, but it's a pale shadow of its former self.
I would love for any new battleground to have some (or a lot!) of what the original Alterac Valley had that made it more of a "battle" and less of an big arena.
Manatank May 25th 2008 2:22PM
Defense wins AVs. You CAN win by rushing to kill the opposing faction leader, but it isn't likely if the other side decides to defend. I've turned away the horde rush at Balinda several times with as little as 5 alliance. This is a crippling blow with the current reinforcement mechanics. Not to mention early deaths in a forward position send opposing faction members to a far away graveyard, which severely hampers rushing efforts.
The trick is to have a balance of offense and defense, and to get 39 strangers to play with some sense. I think 30 on offense and 10 on defense is a pretty solid strategy. Defending Galv/Balinda or a tower is much easier than attacking, and can be done with inferior numbers. Aside from delaying the opposition's offense so that your own offense can win the race, defense is ripe with HKs. One other often overlooked aspect of defense is that when you win with uncaptured objectives your faction gets additional bonus honor for them (each tower and galv/balinda are worth around 40 honor when they survive).
I've been in AVs where we stomped the horde so completely that we captured every tower, killed galv, killed drek, and kept them from capturing anything. Those wins are worth a lot of honor. Those wins also primarily stemmed from breaking their offense. Ripping it apart in key chokeholds while being outnumbered.
Lanth May 25th 2008 9:24AM
Love AB and EotS, hate WSG, ish about AV.
Theres some overhead maps of the new BG floating around, looks like a semi-straight valley with three paths. Kind of like DotA.