Misdirection gets a shorter cooldown in Wrath
Since the addiiton of Tricks of the Trade to the Rogue repertoire in the Wrath of the Lich King Beta, Hunters have felt a little slighted. Not only did Rogues get Misdirection, a somewhat defining Hunter ability in PvE, they got Misdirection on a much shorter cooldown that also augmented the tank's damage for even more threat. Koraa brought good news late last night, mentioning that Misdirection's cooldown will be lowered to 30 seconds (down from 2 minutes) to match the cooldown of Tricks of the Trade.While Misdirection still doesn't have any secondary effects like Tricks does, you have to consider the fact that it can be used at range which is a pretty big deal. While the abilities have similar effects, they'll be used for wholly different things. It's a threat management tool for Rogues, whereas it's a pulling ability for Hunters. The two abilities fill different roles despite their similarities. Hunter threat tends to have some pretty wild spikes sometimes, but I think they have all the threat management they need. Feign Death is on a 30 second cooldown, and the Rogue threat wipe is at 3 minutes.
Filed under: Hunter, Talents, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mats Sep 12th 2008 7:23PM
I think you should stop to think of these abilities as the self help abilities threat adjustments that they currently have, and see them more as a raid help to make up for the loss of Blessing of Salvation.
With the raid as a whole doing 30% more threat then normal, you need to have a steady rotation of rogues and hunters doing these things to help boost tank threat.
Saelorn Sep 12th 2008 7:48PM
The raid will not be doing 30% more threat than normal. All tanks received a flat increase in threat generation while in tank mode, basically the equivalent of free salvation for everyone who needs it, at all times.
Xoshe Sep 13th 2008 12:40AM
No, he's right, but so are you. The raid is doing 30% (well not really, but we'll use that for argument's sake) more threat. It's just that the tank is doing -even more- then 30% more threat to make up for the difference.
PeeWee Sep 12th 2008 7:51PM
A couple of warriors have complained about threat generation in the Beta. Maybe this is what we need to add to the mix, other members of the raid redirecting their threat onto the tank constantly.
Allok Sep 12th 2008 8:01PM
"Maybe this is what we need to add to the mix, other members of the raid redirecting their threat onto the tank constantly."
This is counter productive of what Blizzard is trying to accomplish. If you NEED to have Hunters and Rogues in the group in order for the Tank to have enough Aggro, then all the talent changes that make "other classes more viable to take to raids, and help make min-maxing easier" are pointless. They have said time and time again. They want to get away from the concept that "you NEED this class/spec for that, and you NEED that spec/class this" So people can bring anything they want to a raid and still be successful. This is why all buffs/debuffs that do the same thing no longer stack. So you can have either "this" OR "that" class/spec.
Xoshe Sep 13th 2008 12:40AM
I don't actually think it's all that counterproductive. While yes their intent is to make it more that guilds can take a wider range of classes, that doesn't mean that they aren't still basing encounters assuming that certain buffs are active.
You don't -have- to take a Hunter or a Rogue into your raid, but if an encounter is designed assuming a "Misdirect" is available, then you have the option of taking either one, instead of forcing you to stack Hunters.
Shadiix Sep 12th 2008 8:40PM
if some warriors are complaining about keeping threat, it's not many of them. Most of the tanks I know in beta, or tanking threads I've read threat doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone atm.
Cakaw Sep 12th 2008 8:49PM
Nope.
This is just the pure dps raid utility they are getting.
It makes up for their lack of other roles and closes the argument of weather they should be the #1 dps.
goliathsdkfz Sep 12th 2008 8:57PM
As a hunter, this is my Q_Q on the subject
Misdirect was to add utility to the hunter class due to its complete lack of. To share this utility with the HIGHEST dps class seems silly, the point of a higher dps class is less utility not to give them more utility.
I agree misdirect is much more effective ( if not only ) but misdirect had more function than that. Its secondary use was to gain quick aggro on targets. If a rogue can do this then it shares the utility hunters get.
And I don't like sharing... WWWAAAAAAAAHHHHH
( I told you I was going to Q_Q and I did. :D )
Ballangard Sep 13th 2008 6:29AM
"Misdirect was to add utility to the hunter class due to its complete lack of. "
complete lack of utility? I love my utility in groups! Scorpid Stings to debuff bosses to help tank damage mitigation. Ferocious Inspiration (on BMs) for extra party-wide damage, the soon-to-be-nerfed Expose Weakness (on Surv) for buffing raidwide physical damage, Trueshot Aura (for MM) for minor party-wide physical damage buff, the soon-to-be-changed/nerfed Improved Hunter's Mark for buffing raidwide physical damage a bit. Silencing Shot (on MM) for caster mobs. Pets that can make emergency off tanks (especially for BMs). Distracting Shot to help save our squishies. our ALMIGHTY FREEZING TRAP, one of the few dependable crowd controls in the game that isn't limited by mob race (just bosses and occasional specific immunities). Chain Trapping FTW! And even before Misdirection, we still have the best threat management in the entire game, allowing us to, in many cases, keep up our DPS at a longer-term, higher-sustained rate (is MQoSRDPS still trademarked and copyrighted? :P ).
So yeah. I love my hunter's utility.
goliathsdkfz Sep 13th 2008 8:39AM
Expose weakness nerf kinda lowers the utility of the hunter in raids (WHY D: ), MM to silencing shot is deviating away from the main damage and isnt used in raiding. Only effective in heroics and 5 mans where that kinda extra isnt needed. Trueshot aura again needs to deviate from the main raid DPS tree.
This boils down to one raid buff, a nerfed utility spec'd ability and you can manage aggro ( which isnt really a utility as it only affects the hunter and his DPS )
And the trap. Okay I love the trap. Although I wish it wouldnt be so luck based sometimes >.
Ballangard Sep 13th 2008 12:44PM
With TSA going to raidwide and switching to a percentage instead of a flat number, it's going to be what expose weakness used to be. Instead, surv's getting hunting party for mana/rage/energy/runic power regen, which I'm honestly unsure about. As for silencing shot, true, it is more helpful in 5-mans/heroics, especially for trapping casters, but your QQ about our supposed lack of utility didn't specify that it only applied to raids, which I still think is wrong anyway, for the same reasons I already stated.
Ultimately, I think we have plenty to offer, regardless of spec, as long as the player behind the hunter knows what he/she's doing. and on that note, I really hope this attempt by blizzard to break the cookie cutter spec molds works out, because it has been getting awfully boring with everybody insisting that everybody else needs to conform to one or two specifc specs.
goliathsdkfz Sep 13th 2008 5:36PM
... Goddamn your logic
Zep Sep 12th 2008 9:19PM
This whole thing about it being counter-productive to "need rogues or hunters" when Blizzard is trying to let people shake things up with classes...
It just doesn't make sense to me. You're not going to be able to raid naxx, with normal gear, with a couple tanks and healers, and then all the DPS is mages. You shouldn't be able to do a gear-appropriate dungeon with 50%+ of the same class, even if the classes are being homogenized.
A raid doesn't need a rogue plus a hunter, but it sure as hell should have at least one, if not both.
Pallandra Sep 12th 2008 9:40PM
I'll admit, as a hunter, seeing rogues get our signature ability despite their ability to beat us handily in the DPS meters riled me up. I understand it as a threat-control measure on their part, and the value of a distanced pull in numerous situations, but it still bothered me.
However, I'm happy to at least see Blizzard make the duh-logic choice of matching our CD to theirs. However, I also really like the suggestions in the thread. I think adding an armor bonus or stam bonus would be excellent -- it would "balance" the ability with the rogue talent (since they seem to be all about balancing buffs these days, why should this be any different?). Plus, it would work in a very complimentary fashion with TotT. I hope Blizzard considers adding a secondary trait to ours.
onetrueping Sep 13th 2008 1:26AM
It should be different because rogues don't get the ability until level 75, while hunters have the utility for much longer.
Msrc Sep 13th 2008 4:19AM
Would that really matter at level 80? A few extra levels of MD is no big deal.
onetrueping Sep 22nd 2008 8:43AM
So you're saying that Greater Heal and Heal should be equalized, despite the fact that they are obtained at different levels? They are, after all, essentially the same abilities.
If you still want to argue the point, consider this: the rogue has to be in close combat for the ability to work, with lighter armor, and is thus more prone to sudden death, while the hunter can use Misdirect from range and stay safe. For an initial pull, this can mean a hell of a lot, particularly when you consider the fact that most rogues that PvE don't invest the extra Subtlety talent points to make stealthing up to a mob a safe prospect, and that they would still attract the attention of any adds. The Hunter ability is superior for pulling and safety reasons, so the rogue version gets a buff and slightly more threat transfered.
Clbull Sep 12th 2008 9:52PM
To be honest, I think this will make Hunters much better at handling threat which to be honest, at the start of the battle would be ridiculous.
Whilst it is a pulling device, it can be used as threat management if you want to.
I was kinda put off of Misdirection's 2 minute cooldown as it felt too restrictive especially if you'd usually pull several sets of mobs within 120 seconds (especially in a heroic)
Its also a boost to Hunter survivability when grinding, as Misdirection doesn't feel like another 2 minute cooldown which should only be used in certain situations. Finally, we won't be pulling our pets off of us with a single auto shot (not that we would now cos of Tenacity pets)
Erbodie Sep 12th 2008 10:29PM
As previously reported, Growl does not work properly at the moment and you pull aggro off of your pet after a couple of shots. An MD every 30 secs will certainly help with that, as well as increasing the threat of our tanks in fights like Brutallus.