Big Feral changes coming post-Wrath
by Eliah Hecht 
Nov 4th 2008 at 4:30PM
We've been hearing rumblings about Feral stuff from Ghostcrawler, but wow. These are some big shake-ups. I'd better get it out on the table before I start raving about it:- Bonus armor on items (rings, necklaces, trinkets, and cloaks) will no longer be multiplied by bear forms. So while leather leg armor with 253 armor will still give us about 1190, a ring with 100 bonus armor will only give us 100 (not about 470, as now). Feral staves will no longer have armor. However, armor modifiers will be adjusted as necessary so our net mitigation does not go down.
- An as-yet undecided deep Feral talent (such as Primal Tenacity) will gain the added effect of reducing the cost of shifting to Cat and Bear by 50%, stacking with Natural Shapeshifter for a total cost reduction of 80%. This will help PvP druids shift cheaper if they want to.
- Protector of the Pack's group requirement has been dropped. It now simply increases attack power by 2/4/6% and reduces damage taken by 4/8/12%, whenever you're in bear form.
Alright, now that I've gotten the facts out there: woo hoo! I couldn't be more excited about these changes. This goes leaps and bounds towards addressing the few Feral concerns I had left (which I guess says something about how minor my Feral concerns were). Armor-bearing jewelry has been bizarrely good for us for too long, and I'm glad I won't be desperately clinging to my Badge of Tenacity at 80. I don't PvP a lot, but I think Feral PvPers will be very pleased with the mana fix. And while I sort of liked the flavor of ProtP, it ultimately felt un-fun. Kudos for scrapping a very interesting idea in favor of fun.
What do you guys think of these changes? Anything left on your Feral wish list? And please don't say "bloat;" we're not supposed to be able to do great Cat and great Bear with one build, and it would be overpowered if we could. Besides, dual specs are coming.
Filed under: Druid, Patches, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
injasour Nov 4th 2008 4:36PM
If the mitigation change is true these are all good, especially for feral PvP viability (not that I care).
I thought he had said getting rid of FAP was high on the list, but I assume it's more work than they care to get into right now.
Acceptable Risk Nov 5th 2008 1:38PM
I don't understand how it would be that troublesome. The formula for FAP is simple. It's just 14 times whatever the base DPS is for that iLevel.
**Feral Attack Power is exactly the amount of AP needed to give Druids the DPS increase that the weapon already has.**
I don't know why they can't just roll that AP calculation into the other ones that happen when you shift. Then we can start using any big appropriate two-handed hammers without needing to wait for a weapon meant for ONE spec of ONE class.
If they're really trying to reduce the number of class-specific drops, they really need to get on this.
Terry Heard Nov 8th 2008 3:12AM
I hope I win!
wifwaf Nov 4th 2008 4:37PM
If net mitigation doesnt change when we lose the armor bonuses on trinkets and rings, then its not really a change is it ?
As long as we remain viable tanks at end game, no-one is going to care where the mitigation comes from.
Damntheman Nov 4th 2008 4:58PM
OMG you mean someone at blizzard finally asked themselves "Hey wouldn't this all be easier to balance if this stat didn't benefit one class 470% as much as it benefits others?", what kink of douches do they have programming this thing?
FireStar Nov 4th 2008 5:36PM
I care about the fact that i won't have to run some kind of equivalent to Durnholde keep 15 times just to get an armor bonus ring.
Honoke Nov 4th 2008 5:37PM
@Damntheman
The people programming this game are the same ones who realize plate has quite a bit more armor on it than leather. The armor multiplier isn't going away. In fact, there is a good chance it will be increased. What they are doing is shifting our dependence for mitigation away from high armor values on our trinkets, rings, and weapons. With Potp and extra dodge from talents, we don't need the high armor values anymore. This has nothing to do with them fixing what you perceive to be a balance issue. They are merely shifting our focus so gear can be simplified and less of it gets sharded for being useless to other classes.
Damntheman Nov 4th 2008 8:47PM
Thank you Honoke for assuming I can't read. My comments were obviously regarding ADDED ARMOR. Added armor was a stat which was "worth" almost 5 times as much to a druid as a warrior. That is just stupid, of course it would make itemization a pain in the ass.
All classes value stats slightly differently, but no one would think it sane to give a 5X multiplier to spell crit for mages.
Base armor is decided only by item type and ilvl, a multiplier of this number makes sense. It means that (without taking diminishing returns into account) as plate items go from 1000 to 2000 AC, a leather item of the same ilvl can go from 200 to 400 AC and maintain scalability between tanks.
I don't need to hear you fanboi garbage, this fix was obvious and should have been active on WoW release.
Honoke Nov 5th 2008 12:26AM
Oh Damntheman, reading is one thing, comprehending is another. I'm still not really sure what you are even trying to argue, but you missed the point of my argument. I can only assume this "ADDED ARMOR" you are wailing about is items with green armor values, which have only been prevalent since about mid-BC, and were not a WoW release concern. The green armor values were hot fixed in for most druid items in BC. Even then this wasn't a problem. The added armor really let bears shine and filled a mitigation gap we had.
The shift away from armor now is because of a general trend of simplifying gear. They want us to tank in rogue gear, and do not want us to hold onto relics of BC for tanking in Wrath, thus the cutting of the benefit from plus armor items and the implementation of new mitigation talents. This added armor was never a problem that Blizzard needed to "fix', it's just an outdated idea that's being replaced in favor of a new direction.
So the armor is not going away because of a design flaw, but rather because of a design philosophy change. Games evolve, this game especially. Doesn't mean they were wrong in the past.
By the way, you don't have to resort to petty name-calling to prove a point. I believe the fact that your posts are grayed out while my rating is rising shows that people agree more with me. :)
Todd Nov 4th 2008 4:39PM
I definitely don't like where this is going for feral pvp in arenas. I understand the mentality, as opposed to contrary belief feral druids can be extremely powerful right now if played correctly (2v2) because of decent mana pools to heal, and also melee dps. It seems the route they are going is to decrease the amount of intellect on gear to avoid the healing aspect but not decrease the availability to shift. What this does is take the hybrid out of the class and force you into a pure role, without the benefits of being a pure class.
Honoke Nov 4th 2008 4:56PM
I agree wholeheartedly. My favorite thing about being a druid, in PvP or PvE is non-specialization. I love being able to kitty dps, then shift to bear to grab a lose enemy, then pop out and battle rez a fallen comrade and heal him back to full, then back to kitty to finish fight. This move towards specialization is killing what the druid class is about. I would happily take subpar dps and gain all of my hybridization back, with my mixed gear with int and my weak but vital healing. Leave specialization for the pure classes. I want to be able to do everything well, and not forced to do one thing great. :)
Hefren Nov 4th 2008 4:39PM
Hmmm... so stamina and agility rings and trinkets will now be king?
Myria Nov 4th 2008 4:41PM
Armor is the only thing ferals have that works. Now that's going away?
A sad day, a sad day indeed.
I trust Blizzard to make this change and not have ferals end up with way less mitigation about as much as I trust a politician to live up to their promises.
Keep your Badge of Tenacity, it'll remind you of the good ol' days.
Honoke Nov 4th 2008 4:45PM
It says in the post that armor modifiers will be adjusted so our net mitigation doesn't decrease.
Means that bear form multiplier for armor might be going up to compensate for the armor rings and trinkets.
And give Blizzard a bit more credit. They are working hard in these last few days before the wrath release to find a way to get all the classes working.
Ekimus Nov 4th 2008 4:48PM
Agreed, this is part of their tanking class normalization. We were hitting the armor cap way too easily, thanks to mechanics they designed.
They want all tanks to mitigate equally, while not necessarily in the same fashion.
Brul Nov 4th 2008 5:13PM
I'm confused. My 50% dodge in bear form works pretty damn well, and I'd take that any day over a whole half percent damage reduction from a few hundred points of armor.
GC has been saying forever that we overvalue armor. This is a great change. It just means we can stop clamoring for armor rings and trinkets and keep cranking up our dodge and health.
Let's be honest here too, feral tanks are ridiculous right now. Even if this was a nerf (and it's not), it shouldn't surprise you.
Mitawa Nov 4th 2008 6:02PM
@Brul
I always favored armor more because it's always there. Tanking based on Dodge is like tanking based on luck, in other words: Russian Roulette. 50% Dodge is awesome, but what if you -don't- dodge 2, 3 times in a row... Heck if you're just unlucky there's a chance you would -never- dodge. VERY unlikely, but still there.
Armor is good to have because even if you hit a really bad string of blows you won't go down like the 1929 stock market. This 'un-nerfing' of our modifier that took a hit for 3.0.2 is good. Clinging to level 70 gear at 80 would be kind of like how it was in MC. People would buy level 15 rings and such for no other reason than the fire resist.
Hurricain Nov 4th 2008 4:45PM
This may not be the best possible fix for arena but 50 to 80% less mana for shifting certainly helps.
12% less dmg in 2v2 for bear form sounds ok too, for that matter, but of course there are a lot of talents to choose from.
Ekimus Nov 4th 2008 4:49PM
Protector of the Pack is considered a must-have tanking talent, due to the mitigation. Blizz wasn't comfortable having a resto druid in PvP with such high armor, so they adjusted that mitigation to the pure tank spec.
Ekimus Nov 4th 2008 4:45PM
Good to see that the armor solution is more of a mechanics shift, rather than a buff or nerf.
Feral Mana only seemed to be an issue in PvP and grinding, you shouldn't shift that often in instances/raids.
PotP was a nice gimmick, but seemed a bit unfair for us in regards to the other tanking classes.