Ask WoW Insider: Instance running 101
Here's a question for you all from Percinho about my absolute favorite thing to do in game: five man instances. He and his guildies are about to run their very first instance (or they were when he sent this to us at ask@wow.com), and he wants to know your very best tips for instance running:For the first time we have 5 players with level 60+ characters and so have decided to run some instances. None of the guild have extensive experience of instancing as we tend to mainly be solo-ers, or group up in twos and threes just to quest. We're heading to the Ramparts in Hellfire Peninsula with a Warrior, Priest, DK, Rogue and Mage. What we're after is some tips for successful instancing that we may not have considered, those things that every veteran knows that wouldn't even occur to instance-n00bs like ourselves.
Anything that could help our first guild run avoid total disaster would be greatly appreciated!
Percinho
Well hopefully they made the run fine, but it's a good question: what do you wish you'd been told when you first started running instances? Percinho also mentions that they're aware of the aggro mechanics -- that's the thing I had the hardest time with when I started, though it seems easy now. I'd also say settle the loot rules first, since even in a guild, that's where problems come from. Finally, an awareness of what other classes can do is always good: helping a Warlock to remember his soul stone or asking a Shaman for a specific totem in a certain situation can help the whole group (if done tactfully, of course, not "omg lay poison totem down, noob"). What say you, readers?
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Odds and ends, Instances, Ask WoW Insider, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Matthew Dec 1st 2008 6:11PM
I would recommend a few things.
- Hotkey the ability to mark targets (skull, star, X, etc.) so it can be done quickly.
- Don't fear unless the area is completely clear of enemies (like Violet Hold, for example). Fearing in instances can cause wipes super fast.
- Use /readycheck ! Nothing is more annoying than wiping on a boss because someone wasn't ready or was switching gear or adding something to their hotbar and the boss was pulled before they could get in position.
Those are just the ones that came to mind quickly.
Ganaw Dec 1st 2008 8:08PM
Marking mobs makes things so much easier. I personally use a mod to make this a faster easier (personal preference obviously) I had used lucky charms until I found Baud Mark, http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/baud-mark.aspx. You just bind a key and then when you hold it and click a mob a menu comes up with the raid marks. Very fast marking.
And ditto on /readycheck. I'm a tank so I say when we go but I like to /readycheck to make sure my healer (especially) and my DPS are ready to jump in with me.
jbodar Dec 1st 2008 10:40PM
@ Ganaw
Baud Mark is great, though I replaced it with OPie for the additional functionality.
- The Tank should be the one learning to mark. Well, everyone should LEARN, but it's normally done by the Tank, since in a 5-man, he should be the one setting the kill order/CC targets. You can come up with your own standard for what each mark means. It doesn't really matter, but make sure everyone knows what you've decided on ahead of time. The Priest needs to know that Diamond = Shackle BEFORE you pull.
- The Healer should not worry about doing damage; his job is to heal, not throw a few heals between damage spells. These spells cost mana, and if he runs out of it, you're all toast.
Rylan Dec 2nd 2008 12:38AM
@jbodar
Since you mentioned star for shackle, they might as well learn the most common kill order in case they ever PUG.
Typically marks and kill order:
Skull = primary target/first kill
X = secondary
Circle = sap (if you have a rogue) humaniods only until level 71
Square = freezing trap (if you have a hunter)
Star = shackle (if you have a priest) undead only
Diamond = banish (if you have a warlock) demons only
Moon = sheep (if you have a mage) humanoids/beasts only
Typically, use crowd control on casters, since tanks do great vs melee, but poorly vs casters.
Sspecial CC notes:
Sap - can only be applied out of combat. Once it's broken, that mob is loose. Kill this target before any other CC target.
Freezing trap - your hunter has a long cooldown on this, but it can be reapplied by the hunter if he knows what to do. He should lay the trap, pull aggro, then move very far away from the trapped mob, lay another trap between him and the mob incase it breaks, and be ready to repeat until his target is ready to be killed. Kill this target before all CC targets except Sap.
Shackle - Doesn't get used often, unless the instance is full of undead. Can be reapplied if you your priest is paying attention.
Banish - Same as the shackle, except it makes the target mob immune to damage so it can not be broken by damage. Annoying if you refresh it right when your group is ready to switch targets, and then you all have to wait. Better than a corpse run though.
Sheep - Polymorph: the Holy Grail of CC. It only works on Humanoids and Beasts (not undead, demons, or dragonkin), but that means it works on >90% of dungeon mobs. It heals better than anything else in the game, so don't swap targets with it unless a mob is going after the healer. You can keep sheeping over and over and over again, so kill this target last.
Priests can also Mind Control, but it's very situational when that is useful.
Warlocks can Enslave demons, but it's useful only once in a while.
Since I've written this much of an essay, I'm just going to keep running with it.
Tank: learn to Line-of-sight (LoS) pull a group of mobs. You have 2 casters and 2 melee in a pull? Attack at range, then stand right behind a wall/corner/LoS-blocking object. The casters will run right next to you, and everyone else must avoid pulling aggro. This will prevent many wipes. Pull only one group at a time. Know where the patrols are so you can wait when you have to.
DPS: do *NOT* start dpsing as soon as the tank pulls. Let him build up some threat before you go all out. Use interrupts (kick/counterspell/silencing shot) on healers healing spells before interrupting damage spells.
CCers: use the "focus" frame so you can keep track of what you're CCing. If your focus breaks CC and you can pick them up, do so! If you can kite, do so when it looks like a wipe (I'm looking at you frost mages)! As a frost mage, I've kited 6 melee mobs all the way out of Heroic Shattered Halls (from the very end to the very beginning).
Healers: keep your tank in Line of Sight. In general, don't bother healing DPS that has pulled aggro. Unless he's an offtank (druid, warrior, etc) he's probably going to die anyway, and then you'll have a bunch of threat/aggro from healing him. You can recover if only one dps dies, but if the healer or tank dies, it's almost always a wipe.
Other than that, you all should read up on each boss fight ( http://www.wowwiki.com/Hellfire_Ramparts ) so you know what to expect and can agree on a strategy beforehand. Good luck and have fun!
Imbolcain Dec 2nd 2008 2:49AM
@Rylan:
"Typically marks and kill order:
Skull = primary target/first kill
X = secondary
Circle = sap (if you have a rogue) humaniods only until level 71
Square = freezing trap (if you have a hunter)
Star = shackle (if you have a priest) undead only
Diamond = banish (if you have a warlock) demons only
Moon = sheep (if you have a mage) humanoids/beasts only"
While this may be correct for your realm, I believe other realms are slightly different. For example, on my realm you generally see star as the sap target, and circle saved for for some of the more rarely seen CCs (a druid's hibernate, for example). Diamond is generally used for any warlock CC ability...Anything from banish to enslave to chain fearing.
Just some food for though for someone who doesn't do a lot of instancing. Realms generally have very similar assignments for marks, but be aware that your realm may not be exactly the same as the next realm.
JR Dec 2nd 2008 3:46AM
"Diamond = banish (if you have a warlock) demons only"
Banish also works on elementals.
In my realm it's common to assign X for sap, which is not very smart since it gets confused with the second target. And the circle is for seduction, which is missing from your list (also missing is hibernate).
So, basically, with the exception of skull = primary target, the other marks should be learnt on a per-realm basis.
Naix Dec 2nd 2008 11:05AM
Let me just say... Don't blame the healer. In fact never ever ever ever blame the healer.
1. If your tank dies to fast..your tank does not have the defense, health, and armor.
2. If mob does not drop fast enough...your DPS is under skilled and geared.
If you wipe and and your healer has full mana..go back to rule 1 and 2.
Fireflash38 Dec 2nd 2008 11:20AM
Naix, you are just plain wrong.
Here is the deal:
Tank dies, Healer's fault.
Healer dies, Tank's fault.
DPS dies, DPS's fault.
Some extenuating circumstances can nullify this, but in general it is true.
Matthew Dec 2nd 2008 11:24AM
I won't say "always" blame anyone. But even a good tank can die with a crummy healer. I ran Heroic Strat yesterday and we had about five wipes from me "taking too much damage to heal through". As a tank, I'm uncrittable and have 23k health unbuffed. That should be enough for Strat. When our healer DC'd the shadow priest dropped Shadow Form and healed me for a few pulls. I had no health problems at all. We wiped a bunch, and it was the healer's fault. It's never "always" someone's fault.
That's something I'd suggest to new players. Never indiscriminately blame one member of your class. Consider each situation uniquely.
Also, more advice!
Hunters and warlocks, (And any other class with pets!): When in instances, take them off aggressive! I had more wipes in instances from a hunter not controlling his pet than anything else, and for a long time I thought the class was just terrible before I realized I had encountered some bad players. Careful management of pets is CRUCIAL in instances.
Kanuris Dec 2nd 2008 7:18PM
Rylan
You forgot to mention a Ret Paladin's Repentance, which is pretty versatile and works on almost every mob type there is. Unfortunatly it lasted 1 minute and has a 1 minute cooldown, so if it's broken early it ain't get reapplied.
Trueheart Dec 3rd 2008 10:35AM
@9/Matthew:
I'd go you one better. Any pets probably should be set to passive in an instance. Learning how to manage your pet is one of the things that comes with playing a pet class.
When we started Kara we had a couple hunters in the group, and it was par for the course for the first few weeks for one of them have a pet run off somehow and pull something we didn't intend. I still don't know how it was happening, but the hunter in question eventually learned to control the pet.
The humorous side: this problem pet was still unnamed when we started Kara. After the trouble the hunter allowed it to cause, he named it "LEROY".
Polubog Dec 1st 2008 6:11PM
Don't worry -- it was the priest's fault.
Danta Dec 1st 2008 7:36PM
No way. It's always the Hunter's fault in our guild.
If all else fails..blame the Hunter!
Balius Dec 1st 2008 8:04PM
Blaming rogues is popular too.
Stealthfire Dec 1st 2008 9:34PM
We go a step further...we blame the hunter's pet. One cat in particular...
Quill2006 Dec 2nd 2008 6:36PM
As a note for Hunters doing their first instance runs with the new pet abilities, Gorilla's Thunderstomp breaks CC. It sucks.
So turn it off. It makes you look like you want everyone to die.
AJ Dec 1st 2008 6:14PM
First off is to have fun, everyone's first instance run was a shambles, some of us had great "mentors" but a lot of the subtlety of grouping become so second nature to us old timers we forget how it was on our first run.
Secondly remember that loot is a bonus, the real reward is seeing content with other like minded people that you enjoy spending time with. Group dynamics will all come with practice, but attitude can be the make or break of any group.
Just my 2 cents, good luck and enjoy :)
AJ @ wowcasually.blogspot.com
twelve Dec 1st 2008 6:40PM
"(...) remember that loot is a bonus, the real reward is seeing content with other like minded people that you enjoy spending time with."
Absolutely - and so easy to forget.
talkingmike Dec 1st 2008 6:55PM
Sure, loot is a bonus. But once you hit max level, loot becomes a means to the end of seeing even more content.
You too will to come to The Dark Side.
Andy Dec 1st 2008 7:04PM
Been to the dark side, still kept the attitude that loot was secondary and a means to an end, not the end itself.
Sure you need better gear to take on higher tier content, but it's completely possible to raid successfully and still value your guildies and the fun of it all over your next tier upgrade...
One day the servers will shut down and all that will be left is our memories, if all we were interested in is the loot then I think they'll be a sour time to look back on.