EoHs (not) exchangeable for EoVs at 10:1 on the PTR
by Eliah Hecht 
Jan 9th 2009 at 9:00AM
Update: This post is incorrect. Sorry about that. As mentioned in the comments, the actual change is one EoV for one EoH, which makes a lot more sense.
In the latest PTR build, updated tonight, the Emblem of Valor quartermaster will sell you Emblems of Valor (the 25-man raid, ilvl 213 emblems) for the price of ten Emblems of Heroism (10-man/ilvl 200). This is something we talked about way back last summer, when they introduced the idea of having multiple levels of badges; this way, 10-man raiders can eventually get the 25-man gear, it just takes a very long time. One EoV can not be traded back for ten EoHs, by the way.
I do think that exchange rate might be a bit high. The cheapest items (rings and cloaks) cost 25 EoVs, which would be 250 EoHs if you paid for it entirely that way. That's (just under) 16 weeks of full Naxxramas clears. If you've been clearing Naxxramas for 16 weeks, you're probably pretty bored of it and ready to move on to Ulduar (which will hopefully be released by then), at which point any EoH-EoV trade-up is meaningless, because you're not getting EoHs anymore.
Actually, that's an assumption on my part: I'm fairly certain that Ulduar-10 will not give out EoHs. In fact, I've got 100g riding on that theory, so it had better be right. But the entire point of having multiple types of badges is to separate tier-appropriate gear: if you're raiding Naxx-10, you get Naxx-10-level gear (ivl 200) for your badges. Why should you still get ilvl 200 badges from Ulduar-10, when Ulduar is a tier higher than Naxxramas, and will likely drop ilvl 213 loot?
In conclusion, though, I think this is a step in the right direction, but the exchange rate is a bit high. 4:1 seems more reasonable to me. On the other hand, this may not even be intended to go live; PTR changes are always revocable.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Mike Jan 9th 2009 9:07AM
They kept adding higher iLvl gear to G'eras and ultimately the Sunwell Isle vendor using the same badges. Why would they change that system?
Siph Jan 9th 2009 9:15AM
What he said, I would be surprised if they would introduce yet another type of badge.
Besides that they said that they didn't want the currency tab to display too many different currencies, which would turn it into a mess quite fast until they actually add some functionality to moderate what's being shown.
Mitch Jan 9th 2009 9:56AM
Because they have stated as much before. They don't want the equivalent of people clearing Kara getting T6 quality gear.
Mike Jan 9th 2009 10:06AM
@Mitch Do you have an actual link to that statement?
Historically, they've been interested in making the playing fields even, so saying that they don't want people clearing Naxx getting T8+ gear seems like nonsense. If that had been the case in BC, wouldn't they have just not put it into the game?
Saying the opposite of what they actually do in game seems pretty self-defeating and idiotic. They are the ultimate arbiters of what gear is accessible to which characters.
The statement actually seems like something a lot of players want, rather than what Blizzard will ever do.
Mitch Jan 9th 2009 10:18AM
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/06/08/badges-in-wrath/
That was a while ago, but I would imagine their thought process will still be inline with what Tigole said. They could pull a 180 because nothing has been confirmed yet, however.
Vlatch Jan 9th 2009 10:24AM
@Mitch
You can read that link you posted in two ways. The emblems of valor are basically a stratification of the gear. The better items by far are on the valor vendors, and the lesser quality ones are on the heroism vendors.
Basically, what you have is a stratification of the items for "heroic" raiders, and heroic dungeons. Before, I could run heroics and no raids till my eyes bled and still get some best in slot items or very close to it.
This system blocks me from the very best items, and even with a 10 to 1 conversion, it would take me months to get the same thing a raider could buy in a couple weeks. I think the conversion is a fair one.
jaxson_bateman Jan 9th 2009 10:37AM
Quite frankly, regardless of how Blizzard ends up going with the badge system, Naxx raiders *shouldn't* be able to get T8/T9 quality loot just from doing Naxx.
Why?
Because doing higher level content loses a lot of its glamour and incentive if there aren't significantly better rewards from doing so. I know it was fairly annoying to work my way up from Kara to T6, finally get my hands on the healing mace off Kaz'rogal after weeks and weeks, and then have the new items become available off the badge vendor and seeing people who would flounder in a T6/Sunwell environment getting gear that's almost as good as my own. Basically, was there really a point to getting that mace in the end, when one become much more easily obtainable via heroics and Karazhan?
And personally, I feel a 10 to 1 upgrade ratio is fine. You've got to remember that it's not just Naxx you're getting those badges from - it's every single heroics. Y'know, all those heroics you keep doing after you get all the loot you need from them, in order to complete achievements and get rep. Having an upgrade system with the badges meaning heroics will remain viable for quite a bit longer than they would otherwise.
Dave Jan 9th 2009 10:50AM
easy answer: Because they're introducing two more tiers of badges with Ulduar and subsequent raids will have further segregation of badges such that you can't take your T9 guild into Naxx every week for badges and get Frozen Throne ilvl 250 epics for 150 naxx badges.
It's a stupid idea, but usually once Blizzard has a bad idea, they follow through with it until people absolutely hate it rather than just asking the players what they liked about the previous systems.
sephirah Jan 9th 2009 10:51AM
@jaxson
"Because doing higher level content loses a lot of its glamour and incentive if there aren't significantly better rewards from doing so."
change it in
"Because doing low level content loses a lot of its glamour and incentive if there aren't better rewards from doing so."
Some guilds, if Ulduar is harder than Naxx, will not be able to clear it and will be stuck on Naxx till next xpac.
You should understand that the time of elitist raiders is over.
If you raid for fun, good. If you raid for having better gear than the people next to you in Dalaran, find another game.
infection Jan 9th 2009 11:20AM
"If you raid for fun, good. If you raid for having better gear than the people next to you in Dalaran, find another game."
From what I saw, they are going to be making the best gear obtainable through the "hard" achievements. You know, 3 drakes up in OS type stuff. Sure some people have done it, but it is taking the non elitest lots of gear upgrades and lots of time just to figure out.
And this is now why the game is fun for everyone. All can see the content (but still have to have some sort of organization and skill, as Uldar won't be as easy as Naxx) but only the elitist will be getting the best gear.
I didn't read about tier's being that gear, but I kinda hope so.
I'm actually tired of seeing everyone run around with the same gear. They've given people the ability to see the whole game, no matter if you are elite or not, but I want there to be something besides a title to be going after.
Seeing the end of the game is not going to make you elite anymore. Coordination, knowing your class, and learning the fight to receive the best gear will. And for me, I hope that gear is something like Tier 8.5 or something better than obtainable stuff through vendors that everyone can get.
Adriane Jan 10th 2009 4:15AM
I suspect they'll do what they did in the past. Valor and Heroism gear will receive new items to buy, they will just cost more badges than what's available now.
But then won't people just farm Naxx, you say? Yes, they will. But it doesn't matter. Ulduar or Naxx, either way, they're raiding. And the gear rewards will still be proportional to their respective dungeons. When you raid Ulduar, you are pretty much guaranteed to get one higher level item per run. Whereas if you raid Naxx, you will only get a portion of the badges you need. You will have to raid Naxx several times over to get the same gear-level item you could in Ulduar; and it's very likely you won't be able to buy the best gear anyway. So it's perfectly fair. Run Ulduar get T8 equilevent stuff every run. Or farm Naxx, and maybe get 1 T8 piece after several months of farming.
Drakar Jan 9th 2009 9:08AM
No, the exchange rate is fine. They are giving away some of the best gear in the game. You should have to work for it.
Although at this point it's probably easier to get 25 people together and face roll your way through Naxx.
as Jan 9th 2009 9:12AM
I cant seem to find anything confirming this on MMO champ. I know theres the 1 valor for 1 heroism...but nothing on 10h for 1v.
Anyway, if this goes through then I can finally get my sweet tank ring! Ive had 21 valors for weeks now and havent been able to get into another 25man.
Workin Jan 9th 2009 10:34AM
Actually the 10 mans are harder on the players, less room for slackers, the 25 mans are only harder on the guild leaders.
kangshi Jan 9th 2009 10:51AM
@ Workin, I seem to find 10man naxx is easier than 25man naxx. I mean they both aren't hard, but when you don't have to offtank any trash and you only need 2 healers (smaller ratio). maybe its just faster not any easier.
johntron512 Jan 10th 2009 11:24AM
Exchange rate is perfect. You want EoV? Join a 5-man guild.
Nadrysta Jan 9th 2009 9:20AM
Ah, this after I decide to go ahead and buy an heirloom weapon. Oh, well. They're still badges well spent.
Lyraat Jan 9th 2009 9:14AM
Disagree. 10:1 is a decent ratio, almost a bit low. You forget that EoH drop from heroics. A couple heroics = 1 EoV. Also, I suspect Ulduar-10 will drop EoHs. The gear will improve. Otherwise, what will Ulduar-25 drop?
Tis a great idea, though. Already, Im swimming in EoHs that I can't use; who needs Frozen Orbs on Aman'Thul? :D I carried over 140 badges from BC, and I spent at least 500 badges on gear. Now? Useless.
Gridneo Jan 9th 2009 10:06AM
Granted lower than 10:1 sounds great for gear, I don't want my 25mans to be in vain if people can just repeatedly run heroics to get the same level of badge gear as me. Eventually yes, you get those 25man drops that are better than badge, but there's some Valor badge gear that's top or near the top.
10:1 at least. Blizz needs to stop dumbing it down for people. Raids are easy compared to BC/Vanilla.
sephirah Jan 9th 2009 10:14AM
@Gridneo
OMG, people running heroics can get your gear!
Don't worry, you're still a really cool person and surely lot of people in Dalaran will say "WoW, that's Gridneo, the coolest guy running 25 men I know!!!1111eleven"