GC answers Hunter questions
by Eliah Hecht 
Feb 4th 2009 at 7:30PM
Hunters, do you have questions about your class? Well, Ghostcrawler's got some answers. Not all of them, of course, but Big Red Kitty can probably handle the rest. Our favorite crab has been chatting a bit about the Hunter class on the official forums. Let's take a look at what he's been saying.
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As far as DPS numbers, Blizzard balances in terms of absolutes, not relatives. This means Blizzards wants people with X quality gear to be doing Y DPS on fight Z, so things like "I got 5th on the meters" aren't as relevant - they're looking at specifically how much DPS you do. (source for this and the next three points)
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Pets are balanced using "a trade-off between damage and utility." Some pets, like wasps, bring bonuses that your 5- or 10-man groups may be missing, and thus it is justified that they do less DPS. That said, "more parity among pets is something [the devs] want to pursue."
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In reference to Trap Mastery, GC says "we hope to be able to announce some 3.1 change soon," so expect changes to that talent in 3.1.
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A limited number of glyphs were added initially. Especially glyphs for new spells will be added over time. The reasoning for this was so people got a chance to see what the spells were like without the glyphs.
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Blizz's goal is to see "nearly every Ferocious pet and the occasional Cunning pet feel like they were valid choices for PvE and nearly every Cunning pet and the occasional Tenacity pet feel like they were valid choices in PvP," although they've been focusing more on Hunter trees than on pet trees recently. (source)
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Explosive Shot's coefficient has been hotfixed to be lower. More changes are in the pipe "to get damage done more in parity...If there are other classes far ahead of you on the damage meters, chances are good they will see some nerfs to their damage soon too." (source)
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BM will be un-nerfed "soon." (source)
BRK has some brief numbers and analysis on spec distribution in 3.0.3 vs 3.0.8, and I have to say, it looks like Marks needs buffs even more than BM (or maybe it's unjustly unpopular). At least Survival is getting some actual players; maybe I'll be seeing more Replenishment in my 5s and 10s now.
Patch 3.1 brings us Ulduar, dual specs, significant changes to all the classes, and more! We've got you covered from top to bottom with our Guide to Patch 3.1.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
JL Feb 4th 2009 7:41PM
BUFF MARKS!!!
Nadril Feb 4th 2009 7:55PM
How much less is Explosive shot doing now? It's one of those skills in PvP that when I fight against a surv hunter I wish BM was still the main spec =P.
Aaron Feb 4th 2009 8:47PM
/agreed Buff MM
ryang Feb 4th 2009 10:03PM
Personally, I'm *still* kicking arse and taking names as MM..
IMHO - nerf mages and DKs. I'm getting thrashed by ppl with quite a lot lower gear level, just because they are the OP-class-of-the-month.
PS. I too would like to know how much SV got nerfed in the hot fix.
Onouris Feb 5th 2009 1:02AM
@ryang Well, I personally don't see how you can ever say you're kicking ass or taking names if you're getting 'thrashed' by Mages and DKs.
For further down comments, saying things like BRK going Survival is in any way bad, grow up. Some of us play the game to do the best we possibly can, whatever spec that currently is. If the rest of you don't want to put that effort in, fine. I agree, the fact that BRK went SV is in line with other people going SV, because guess what, he simply chose the best DPS spec currently available, and so did the rest of us.
Also, saying things like if it died I did my job whatever my DPS. Erm, not quite. If your DPS is terrible but the boss dies, it means you were carried. Once an encounter is reached where people can't be carried, you'll be responsible for not killing it and any guild serious about killing something will either have a good talk about how you can improve, or replace you.
There's a difference between taking friends on raids because they're friends and needlessly smashing your head against a brick wall.
HunterFromTheStart Feb 4th 2009 8:05PM
Part of my problem is that you weaken the pet way too much if you don't go with Beast Mastery. Now admittedly, I've never raided anywhere where having the pet is actually a liability. So I have never lost my pet, and thus most of my DPS. As for survival and Marksman, those require an OUTSIDE tank. Not something I want to try, personally, while soloing.
The other thing, is I would like to see some other pets that do as well as the Gorilla for AOE control. I'm not a fan of the Gorilla. It's a good pet, I just want other options. The gorilla is great when soloing instances that depend on large numbers.
R. Sue Feb 5th 2009 7:53AM
...whereas I've always had a little trouble keeping my pet alive in sticky situations (Heigan comes immediately to mind), so the move to MM just pre-patch, while it only helped my base training-dummy numbers a bit, helped my active numbers quite more. It was also a pretty big part of my guild getting Malygos down -- we were low on DPS in phase 2, when after the first couple mobs, a pet can't do any damage.
Rob Feb 5th 2009 8:33AM
You should try SV while soloing. It's not terrible, and it gets you comfortable with the spec for raiding. I find that SV is lower than BM while soloing due to many factors, but if you dont mind losing 100dps or so, you can level SV fine. Pet aggro isn't much of an issue, but i really miss intimidate.
Ikarus Feb 5th 2009 11:57AM
@ Rob,
I switched to surv recently. I'm lvl 71. I'm finding that my pet can't hold aggro well at all. 2-3 shots and the mob is on me. kinda frustrating, but I love ES, maybe this decrease the the co-efficient will help
Narian Feb 4th 2009 8:52PM
I honestly think that the only reason more hunters when to SV than MM is cause BRK went SV...
jrb Feb 4th 2009 9:05PM
a comment like that is right up there with generalisations like "huntard", and "its hunter loot!". We're not a bunch of mindless sheep you know.
the fact is there is a segment of the hunter community that are as thoughtful and as calculated as any other segment of any other class' community. Some of these guys had been running with SV builds for a very long time, and became vocal when the recent patch hit the test realms. Not to take anything away from BRK (because i think he's a great spokesperson for the hunter class), but i think non-SV hunters would have heard about the changes without him - heck, i had, and i'm hardly a hardcore theory crafter.
I think what i didn't like was that BRK probably did more harm than good by opening up the SV changes to non-hunters, and thusly some guilds and PUGs with less of a finger on the pulse of class changes began to almost demand SV hunters, and that forced people who weren't familiar or happy with the tree to re-spec. if you wanna raid, you gotta bring the goods. it's a simple truth.
that's exactly what i've done, and i'm not particularly loving it - i've found it's nice for 10-25man raids, but not so great solo, or 5man instances. Personally, i'm going to re-spec right back to the same tree i had a couple weeks back, and be happy rolling with blingkong, my gorilla. :-)
Eight Feb 4th 2009 9:26PM
Jeeze dude, I think he was just joking. Take a deep breath, it'll be okay.
Ærynn Lómëhtar Feb 4th 2009 9:34PM
@ jrb
A lot of the BM hunters I know who would have been willing to wait for the BM un-nerf (or who had otherwise been trying to convince themselves and others that the reason they were BM was because the love the pet-hunter synergy) went survival precisely because BRK's move basically justified it. It's like "if even the god (sic) of beastmasters went survival, is there any reason for us to stay?"
And it's no coincidence. While BRK was still publishing screencaps of how BM was still DPS competitive, they stayed BM (while being unhappy with their DPS), but switched immediately since the "numbers don't lie" post.
I know it's anecdotal and, for all I know, it may only be true on our server. But to say that "the only reason MORE hunters when to SV than MM is cause BRK went SV" is not a stretch, but neither is it IMHO an implicit or explicit generalization that hunters can't think for themselves. It's just that they were willing to give the former top dog spec a chance only as long as BRK did and, quite sensibly and thoughtfully, jumped ship when it no longer was top dog. And most hunters would rather be top dog than 2nd fiddle (even if 2nd fiddle is still useful).
That being said, I agree with your comments on the unfortunateness of how BRK "spilled the beans". Those raid leaders who never played hunters or never knew how they worked would demand "spec surv or you don't raid" (at worst) or "if you don't spec surv, you are deliberately being a noob huntard" (at best)... this, even if the only difference in DPS between the talent builds are about 200-300 dps and that the hunters of any spec are still way up on top of the DPS charts.
Plastic Rat Feb 4th 2009 9:55PM
I agree with Narian.
BRK says something is good, and suddenly 90% of the hunter community go blindly stampeding off where ever he pointed. Most players are incapable of or too lazy to think for themselves. They want to be told what the best spec is and what gear to equip.
Please BRK go back to Beastmastery so I can stop being lumped in with the rest of the herd with my survival spec. Hell, half of these idiots who play Survival now don't even know how to chain trap or kite.
Gimmlette Feb 5th 2009 12:25AM
I tend to agree with you. I have been BM since I could put a point in a tree. I read BRK and tried very hard to learn the things he taught because there are too many "aim and shoot" hunters out there.
And then he goes SV. I know my tree is borked, to use the technical term, but couldn't he stay here and teach us how to use what Blizz gave us effectively? I'm tired of justifying my not respeccing because I like the way things work and it's what I know. "You're not at the top of the damage chart." Get, friggin', over yourself! Didn't the boss just die? Didn't I just save your squishy butt by killing the mob that came after you because you pulled aggro? Didn't I just chain trap the patrol that the tank missed? If we are all alive at the end of the encounter and the boss is dead, I have done my job. I don't have to be at the top of the charts to know I put out MQoSRDPS.
The best thing BRK did was explain how all the spells worked. He showed how to utilize the skills you're given to make you a better hunter and, although he favored BM, the hunters I knew from the other trees were better at their jobs having watched his videos.
Many, many of us have not left BM and are using what we have learned as best we can. This whole, "Well, I don't want a BM hunter, I want an SV hunter is what other classes and trees (Ret Pallies, anyone) have gone through since the game came out. I don't care how a hunter is specc'd so long as they can do the job asked of them. But, I realize I'm in a minority.
Deathgodryuk Feb 5th 2009 1:21AM
@JRB
"We're a bunch of mindless sheep you know."
Fix'd ;)
jrb Feb 5th 2009 7:41AM
@plastic rat - "BRK says something is good, and suddenly 90% of the hunter community go blindly stampeding off where ever he pointed"
which is kind of annoying, in my mind. BRK has always been one of the first people in the hunter community to point out that instead of doing what he or other bloggers / theory crafters suggest or wax lyrical about you should do what feels right for you - what suits your play-style.
@ gimmlette - "I'm tired of justifying my not respeccing because I like the way things work"
i agree totally. i think part of not being a huntard is first and foremost sticking with it and being proficient at the class. We have to justify being a hunter on a day-to-day basis, and flip-flopping between builds based on blizzards whim, for me at least has to stop. Yes, i specced SV, and to be honest i hate it outside of 10+man raids. I guess i'll next use the build when dual specs are introduced, and until then i will have an excellent time soloing, and running 5-mans.
@ Ærynn Lómëhtar - "or "if you don't spec surv, you are deliberately being a noob huntard" (at best)... this, even if the only difference in DPS between the talent builds are about 200-300 dps "
first off, i think i agree totally with your entire response. you said what iwas trying to (it was around 3am when i responded so my brain wasn't exactly at peak ;)
also I think when you have 4 hunters in a 25man raid you're losing some ofthe value of SV, raid leaders should be thinking about wider utility of the hunter talents or even the skill of the actual player rather than just be thinking about the end DPS that a single hunter brings. I've been in raids and groups where i've out DPS'd hunter with a SV build and a DPS pet when i've had a BM build and a tank pet, with worse gear.
Yes, hunters love being at the top of the damage done charts, but for me i love proving that as a player i'm more useful than you'd think when comparing against others.
on the whole BRK is a great proponent of the hunter community, and one that's doing great things to dispell the myth that we're all huntards - even if a large portion of us follow him like blind sheep.
@ eight - "Jeeze dude, I think he was just joking. Take a deep breath, it'll be okay."
i wasn't actually offended by his comments. it's called responding, and being passionate. ;-)
Merckx Feb 5th 2009 8:31AM
@Gimmlette and other BRK haters:
Grow up and stop QQ.
DRK has all ways said he wants to be top dps that's it. He was survival before BC and said he would move were ever the dps is. SO maybe YOU should start thinking for yourself. If you want to play BM you should research and figure out how to max it's broken dps at the momment. Stop QQ that BRK let you down when he left BM. If anything I see most of die hard BM hunters as the sheep. All the players that played BM becuase it was easier, had higher DPS and because BRK said it was the best. NO,it's not the best anymore and most huntards have moved on so we can keep our raid spot. Yet you all QQ that and claim you stay BM becuase you love your pet and blah blah blah. Try a new spec and stop blaming BRK because your to lazy, scared or cheep to respec and change your enchants and play around with a new spec. BRK didn't let you down, Blizz changed the numbers.
And to all the comments about the mindless hunters running to survival? Who are you kidding? Other then dps what the hell do hunters bring to 5, 10 or 25 mans in WOTLK. there's no CC anymore, just dps. So if you're not bring your AAA dps to a raid, what are you bringing? Don't kid yourself at the momment hunters are only for DPS, no other reason, unless your Survival and you bring replenish.
Rob Feb 5th 2009 8:40AM
@Gimmlette
More power to you if you don't want to go SV. However, I'm the RL of a small guild, and they really need me SV. If I go BM i don't bring enough dps or utility to the raid. Right now SV is tops dps for us, and that's really important; alot of bosses demand we bring absolutely every scrap of dps we can muster. If everyone is overgeared then yeah BM is probably okay, but for right now, for many of us, we really need to bring the most we can, and that's SV.
I've been BM ever since TBC, don't think i'm happy about it, but we do what we need to do to kill bosses.
M Feb 5th 2009 9:25AM
Merckx hit the nail on the head when he said "If you want to play BM you should research and figure out how to max it's broken dps at the momment."
I am still BM, and I will be staying BM. I enjoy micro-managing pets. They don't always get heals like they should, because it's more important to heal a player than it is a pet, so you have to be mindful of the pet's immediate surroundings as well as your own.
I also enjoy pushing the limits of what's unexpected, freaking out other hunters when I out-dps them with 1) the current-worst hunter spec, and 2) gear that's equivalent to two tiers below what they're wearing (i187 blue vs i200/i213 epics). That's also one of the reasons that my Rogue is still Combat (that, and I hate the HFB mechanic).