Ghostcrawler respondes to balance questions
by Mike Schramm 
Apr 7th 2009 at 4:00PM
Our buddy Ghostcrawler has appeared on the forums answering (or re-answering, as he says) a few concerns about the balance of the game. Most of his answer is about PvP: he says that Death Knights and Holy Pallies are overpowered, but that while Blizzard does believe there are more imbalances, debate is still raging about exactly where they are. And he does say that while burst damage is still a concern, he feels that Blizzard did a lot to combat that when they started Season 5, and that the bigger concern now is getting mana pools under control. Too many fights now have healers just going and going, and while they don't want fights to end super fast, they can't all drag out, either.He also talks more in-depth about the balance between gear you can get from PvP and PvE and how it needs to be fixed: he straight out says that 25-man Naxx is too easy to PuG, and agrees that Ulduar and future PvP weapons "should ideally require the same amount of investment." Likewise, when Blizzard tried to reset the resilience stacking at the start of Season 5, they had players facing very powerful weapons from the PvE raids like Kel'thuzad, which lead to, as he says, "a perfect storm for fast Arena deaths." Which is probably why so many players left the Arenas.
The plan for the future? Ulduar's hard modes will be way tougher than Heroic Naxx, so players won't be able to PuG PvE and then go kill in PvP right away. Of course Death Knights are still cruising for a nerfing, if patch 3.1 doesn't bring them down off their high Deathcharger. And GC suggests that in the future, starter PvP gear may beef up resilience at the cost of offensive stats, so that players don't begin with gear that has great defense and offense right away.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, PvP, Raiding, Classes, Forums, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
hahah Apr 7th 2009 4:04PM
I think the first solution they used in BC was really good. High stamina made PvP much more interesting. Resilience was a bad idea imo
domilol Apr 7th 2009 4:23PM
Resilience was a bad idea? Are you kidding me? Being a resto shaman I'm stacking every bit of resilience I can find, not because I want to, but because I NEED to to stop getting gibbed by Ret Paladins/Feral Druids/DK's/Boomkins etc, high stamina alone doesn't cut it when your getting hit for 9k Starfire and 7k Shreds crits.
Resilience was the best idea they did in this game, it gives classes like shaman, who have innately terrible passive defense they ability to actually survive, not everyone has Bubble, IBF+plate+high HP+OP, or Vanish+Evasion+Prep+Spint at their aid.
hahah Apr 7th 2009 4:29PM
A better way to deal with it would be to make crits work differently on other players, like as if we all had high resilience. If you are worried about the unpredictable damage.
The problem is the ridiculous way that the PvP gear is so niche.
dpoyesac Apr 7th 2009 4:53PM
PvP gear should be for (and from) PvP, and PvE gear should be for (and from) PvE.
Resilience is a simple and elegant way to ensure that's the way it is. Well, kinda -- except for Naxx25 weapons and such, but GC DID say that's a problem to be fixed.
I'm not sure why you think PvP gear is 'niche'. PvP IS a niche, after all. I'm glad it's treated as an integral (although dispensible) part of the game.
Grubba Apr 7th 2009 5:08PM
There is nothing "integral" about arenas. They are as tacked-on and artificial as they could possibly be and have absolutely no integration in the game of any kind beyond the gear and rewards that can be brought out of them.
barth Apr 7th 2009 5:14PM
"Resilience was the best idea they did in this game, it gives classes like shaman, who have innately terrible passive defense they ability to actually survive, not everyone has Bubble, IBF+plate+high HP+OP, or Vanish+Evasion+Prep+Spint at their aid."
Don't you think it would be a better idea to actually improve the class abilities than to tack on some new stat that artificially increases the duration you remain alive without having to actively do anything?
The classes don't exist in real life, it's not like they can't alter them.
Resilience was just an unimaginitive quick fix, not even close to the greatest idea ever.
Clbull Apr 7th 2009 8:03PM
I liked the idea of arena... until Season 3 where certain classes became stupidly overpowered, like Rogues, Resto Druids, Arms Warriors and Disc Priests.
Season 5 especially has this problem of overpowered classes (e.g. the Death Knight or Retribution Paladin) and very hard to get gear, meaning Arena can become a catch 22.
Tbh, I hope Season 6 actually tones down or removes the rating requirements for some gear, so we can actually get some reward from doing Arena without needing 2000+ rating.
Zeplar Apr 7th 2009 4:25PM
Well the trouble with that is you get Bear tanks forced to do PVP to raid.... because we're the only ones ridiculous enough to stack ten million health and no parry or block.
Remember in BC, PVP gear had the armor, the resil crit cap, the stamina..... you shouldn't need an arena rating to raid. Separate games.
Gah Apr 7th 2009 4:30PM
Been reading WowInsider for a long time but never really posted here. I feel prompted to respond to this news.
Why is the entire game being pegged around balance in the PVP sandbox? Continuing to alter the PVE game around PVP balance is really stupid. Its homgenizing all the classes and in some cases gimping PVE play.
Why doesn't Bliz just implement separate class rules for PVP like the dual spec mechanism or some such? Oh that's right, Bliz wants WoW to be an E-SPort, the majority of the player-base be damned.
Sigh.
bod Apr 7th 2009 5:27PM
Hear Hear.
It's about time that wow insider did an article on how pvp is ruining pve and vice versa. All sorts of silly compromises made in BC and now in wrath because the games fit so badly together.
From mage mirrors to SP dispersion to fury iron grip to....well I don't need to go on, we've seen a 100 pvp impacts on pve if we've seen 10 and that's just since December.
So we have dual specs now, make a talent tree for pvp for every class and be done with it.
And yes, I know GC is on record as saying devs are blind to the dual spec, but boy oh boy would it solve some of the pointless and game ruining balance malarcky.
I love how GC rationalises that the problem with arena is lack of balance. The problem with arena AND pve and BGs is constant class changes that have pissed off the player base.
Stop the madness.
Kassu Apr 8th 2009 3:05AM
I love you.
Tired of being nerfed in PVE when they are trying to fix something in PVP.
I DON'T PVP PLEASE STOP HITTING ME.
Para Apr 8th 2009 5:21AM
And here we f***ing go again yet another "PVP RUINED PVE" post to which they have never actuly replied to any of my questsion so i will post it yet again
Tell me when your class has not been brought to a raid because of a pvp related change.
Pvp has nerfed your damage a few times but it has also caused you to gain more survivability + the odd damage increase stop focusing on the negatives.
Oh and just because the "majority" dont do arenas doesnt mean that its a small player base that likes competitve pvp, most people dont go near arenas because they dont have the skill an/or not willing to try to get to the high ratings
Lord Negatron Apr 8th 2009 10:09AM
Agreed.
Its ridiculous how i hear yells of OP this OP that, but it all relates to PvP. Even more ridiculous, is depending on the poster ALMOST EVERY class has been filed as "overpowered" so far.
It all depends on who gets their ass handed to them, then all of a sudden said class doing the dmg is OP...
Besides that Blizzard needs to take time and differentiate PvP and PvE.
Syme Apr 7th 2009 4:31PM
I see from Ghostcrawler's post that PvP is still almost exclusively about Arena. I don't suppose I'll be BGing again any time soon as long as I can't upgrade my gear.
crsh Apr 7th 2009 4:31PM
I always enjoy GC's knee-jerk statements, poor guy doesn't know what to say anymore to convince that he's not Kalgan 2.0
Gridneo Apr 7th 2009 4:31PM
Let's see:
I don't mind if you nerf DKs to the stone age. Yea, they're OP. I can still kill them from time to time though.
Just take away Pally Bubbles in Arenas or have situational spells, etc (I think Hunter's Mark is different PvE/PvP?) depending on what type of mob you're fighting. Have it work differently if you're fighting a player vs. fighting a PvE mob. Not that difficult to flag every type of mob in the game as such.
extramedium Apr 7th 2009 5:26PM
Exactly. I don't know why they don't do this kind of thing more often. Sap also works differently on players vs mobs. Rather than nerf the crap out of useful PVE abilities because they are OP in arena, just make them work differently in there.
srysly Apr 7th 2009 4:32PM
Why not just have everyone's health jump up very high in arenas/bg's? That way, people can see their big numbers on the screen, but instead of one frostfire crit taking 50% of health, it only takes 15% or 25%?
Just add a zone buff in bg's and arenas that triples health. Then you don't ahve the problem of PvP gear having so much stam to stack.
Zerekess Apr 8th 2009 5:37AM
Then you'd have the issue of bear tanks running around with 120k+ health. I play a rogue, burst is my only way of killing other players, I doubt I can burst him down within a stunlock or three.
If you boost health, you HAVE to boost damage, otherwise PvE will gain superiority in not only gear, but specs (sustained damage). You'd have to triple damage, which cancels each other out and we'll be back where we are now.
I may be the only one here, but I think the PvP system in BC was on the mark: (No, not just because I'm a rogue, I played a warlock and priest in BC)
- High armour, high stamina, high resilience on armour. Less chance of getting instagibbed if you put the time in to get your gear rather than getting carried through raids.
- PvP weapons. They have them in the game database, just not able to be bought. Self-explanatory.
- No ratings on certain pieces of gear. Perhaps the same pieces that drop from VoA/(new boss), so that you can't get fully-geared JUST through PvE.
That's my 2 cents, I'm not playing much PvP anymore apart from to pool honour and cap marks in preperation for when they fix it. : /
Robert M Apr 7th 2009 4:35PM
The comments are great from GC, but isn't there a glaring missing piece?
I do agree that the welfare epics were in Naxx, but if people wanted to play arena's, woulnd't they be using those epics to step into arena?
That doesn't seem to be happening, or is it and there is something in the arena participation numbers I'm missing?
Arenas, though fun, can be terribly frustrating as well. Blizzard insists they are the true guage of PVP, and as the system is set up currently, I would have to agree. That's why the best PVP gear comes from arenas and not battlegrounds, because I think as GC said somewhere, "you could afk your way to epics in TBC."
Blizzard is on the right track when they let you join BG's as aa group, but why not take it a step further? Why not let you put together a team of 10 or 15 or 25 for a BG setting and not an arena one?
If a good guild can clear Naxx in 3 hours, why not make a BG that would drop similar tokens (like emblems) and a loot.
Ulduar will have 14 bosses I think, so you could limit the number of times your team could battle in the battleground, and only wins award loot.
IDK, I think Blizzard is on the right track, I just wish there was less emphasis on arena and more on the battlegounds. They have the opprotunity to feel much more epic than 3v3, and "feeling" epic is just as important as equiping them right?