Breakfast Topic: Is Blizzard doing faction change the right way?
by Zach Yonzon 
Jul 2nd 2009 at 8:00AM
Despite Blizzard answering some concerns about the future service, there are still more questions relating to Achievements, quests, reputation, and more. What happens to faction-specific mounts? Lore nerds are boggled by the story behind a possible change -- can everything really be explained by some Goblin invention? That seems like such a cop-out, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be better (and cooler) to implement a long and epic quest chain to change factions? Sure it would be confusing to see Orcs hoisting the Alliance banner or Humans yelling 'For the Horde!', but wouldn't it be easier to implement?
Lore-wise, it makes more sense, too. It's not uncommon to see particular races switch allegiance. It's much stranger to transmogrify from, say, a Troll to a Gnome. What are your thoughts on this planned service? Are you happy to have it as a paid option, which would be quick and painless (although your wallet may say otherwise) or would you prefer a long-winded in-game quest chain? Maybe you have some ideas on how it could work. Sound off!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
danny.stout723 Jul 2nd 2009 8:05AM
I think it's still WAY too early to tell. They're planning on testing this extensively, and the details could all easily change. Right now, we really just have to sit back and wait to see what they decide.
Jon Do Jul 2nd 2009 8:25AM
Based on the Blue’s 7/1 update, it looks like it's really as simple as putting up (probably) $25 and submitting your character to an algorithm that maps (rep, mounts, achievements, etc) between Horde and Alliance characters. Don’t think about it beyond that or your head will explode.
But the same was true of dual spec, which was broken for weeks, and is still causing fits for some people. But basically dual spec is similar in that it's an in-game paid service that just entirely ignores lore for the sake of customer satisfaction.
(Yeah, I was disappointed in Blizz once again missing a great opportunity to expand the lore and the depth of the game, but whatever. I got over it yesterday.)
Mike Jul 2nd 2009 8:59AM
Dual spec ignoring lore? Tell me exactly how talent points themselves are explained in lore. Or global cooldowns. Or gear magically changing size/shape depending on race/gender. Or that a buff, broad-shouldered Human Mage can't wear a suit of armor even though his Warrior twin can. Or being unable to mount while in combat, or use more than one potion. Or turning off XP gains. Or hundreds of people being in the same dungeon but not (instances). Or how we've killed Kel'Thuzad so many freaking times. Or how Mr. Smite can somehow manage to stun even level 80's while he grabs his hammer.
I'm sorry, but there are so many mechanics that have no (indeed, can't have) explanation in lore, why start complaining now?
Jon Do Jul 2nd 2009 9:29AM
Lore is “knowledge acquired through education or experience”. Typically gameplay in WoW suggests that as you level you acquire knowledge and training in the skills of your class - represented in part by talent points. As you level, presumably you will become familiar with your chosen talent spec - for instance, most people would probably agree that if I play a shadow priest to level 80, and then add a holy dual spec, I’m not instantly a healer just because I can press a button on the talent interface.
Back in vanilla the design heavily discouraged switching talent specs by charging a hefty gold fee each re-spec - 5g growing to 50g (back in the day when gold was *much* harder to come by, and the road between Org and TB was uphill both ways). In 1.11, re-spec fees were lowered a bit via the ‘decaying’ cost over time. However, the increased ease of getting gold led to the point that late in TBC toons switched specs casually (even 50g was not much by then). Finally this was trivialized with dual specs, which put switching specs a click away - no need to even bother to visit a trainer.
Robert M Jul 2nd 2009 9:32AM
"Dual spec ignoring lore? Tell me exactly how talent points themselves are explained in lore."
Specializing in a particular field of study is not beyond most of us. Doing so with talents is really our way or learing
Or global cooldowns. Or gear magically changing size/shape depending on race/gender. Or that a buff, broad-shouldered Human Mage can't wear a suit of armor even though his Warrior twin can. Or being unable to mount while in combat, or use more than one potion. Or turning off XP gains. Or hundreds of people being in the same dungeon but not (instances). Or how we've killed Kel'Thuzad so many freaking times. Or how Mr. Smite can somehow manage to stun even level 80's while he grabs his hammer."Dual spec ignoring lore? Tell me exactly how talent points themselves are explained in lore."
Specializing in a particular field of study is not beyond most of us. Doing so with talents is really our way or learning our field. A plant paleontologist is not ignorant of the other paleontological fields, only less as knowledgeable as they are in their focus. A quest chain that allowed you to learn a new specialization, or set of talents, would have been awesome. A second major if you will. Instead Blizzard decided to make it a gold dump. Lore Grade: F
“Or global cooldowns.”
Though technically necessary, GCD’s can easily fit into lore because it could be argued that the length of time it takes to process the casting of a spell or use of an ability will require a set number of time before the the next commands get fired off in your brain. The longer you do something, the better you get at it, so it could stand to argue that as you level, the learning of “haste” would seem fairly logical
“Or gear magically changing size/shape depending on race/gender.”
This one you win on, but it is a fantasy game, god forbid in all of the studies of Azeroth, no one has figured out how to auto-size weapons and armor. Hell, it have been one of the first things the gnomes worked on when they joined the Alliance and realized that everything was a little oversized for them.
“Or that a buff, broad-shouldered Human Mage can't wear a suit of armor even though his Warrior twin can.“
Well just because you can wear your sister’s underwear, doesn’t mean you should. Wish someone had told you that sooner.
“Or being unable to mount while in combat,”
You win here again, but a spooked animal may not come during combat, or maybe it’s exceptionally difficult to mount up when a lock keeps knocking you off with his shadow bolts or a rogue is stabbing at you making it unable to get proper footing as you try and get into the saddle.
“or use more than one potion.”
I thought potion sickness was a great idea. The fact that you can suck down some weird concoction with little consequence seemed out of place. Whether its beer or candy bars, too much of a substance can make you sick. Why would we believe that some alchemical creation wouldn’t do the same?
“Or turning off XP gains.”
Cher was able to do it like 30 years ago, being able to do it in a fantasy game seems appropriate.
“Or hundreds of people being in the same dungeon but not (instances).”
???
“Or how we've killed Kel'Thuzad so many freaking times.”
You also win on this one.
Or how Mr. Smite can somehow manage to stun even level 80's while he grabs his hammer.
So level 80’s are impervious to the hammer of a boss? Learn to kill him before he reaches for his hammer and you won’t have that problem. Did it just the other night, and surprised myself.
Jon Do Jul 2nd 2009 9:36AM
Note that this is also precisely why a faction change ‘breaks lore’ - because the process of questing in your faction teaches you much about the lore of your faction - hence the Achievement “Loremaster”.
That is a delicious irony, is it not?
Blizzard introduces an achievement called Loremaster, then allows the toon to switch factions - possibly keeping the title even though the toon would be a noob in their new faction's lore.
Zelius Jul 2nd 2009 12:19PM
Lore? There is no lore to it. Questioning this out-of-game transfer is like questioning why you have to press buttons on a keyboard to make your character move.
Zach Jul 2nd 2009 2:32PM
Sorry, dual specs are no more lore-breaking then changing specs was before. How does it make sense to be able to go to your trainer, give him some gold, and boom-bata-bing, you have a new specialization. This, like dual specs, goes against what you said about "leveling up and accumulating talent," if you can undo it at the drop of a hat.
The ONLY thing dual specs changed was the convenience of "breaking lore." Now you don't have to be in a major city to do it.
On Topic: I couldn't care less about faction changes. Everyone I know is Horde, so why would I go Alliance? (Although some of my guildies have Alliance characters that might switch and transfer over. We'll see...)
Urza Jul 2nd 2009 3:54PM
Normally I'm concern with the "lore" of the games I play as well but I'm just going to say straight out... STFU Lore Nerds.
This has nothing to do with Lore. I have an alliance warrior, I don't want to play alliance anymore, I don't want to start a new warrior. Problem solved.
This has as much to do with lore as character server transfers have to do with lore.. absolutely nothing. You change your character you become a NEW character. It can be used as a RP mechanic (as being cursed into another race or transformed into another race to spy or whatever) but for 95% of the people using it, it will have no baring what so ever on in game lore.
DasHeals Jul 2nd 2009 8:08AM
"quick and painless (although your wallet MY say otherwise) or" pretty sure that should be "may."
Typos aside, I'm not really sure my thoughts on the system yet, it's a good idea for sure, just reserving judgement until some more details on it come out.
I think they're allowing a race change with it due to being unable to pick out enemies at a glance in world pvp/bgs. Could this race change be better implemented after and epic quest line, and then the use of a Goblin or Gnomish engineering advice used by the faction of your choosing? Sure could, but that's a little farfetched.
Delshay Dethecus US Jul 2nd 2009 10:21AM
"Could this race change be better implemented after > and < epic quest line, and then the use of a Goblin or Gnomish engineering advice used by the faction of your choosing? Sure could, but that's a little farfetched."
I think this should have been an, not AND...
I love it when peeps complain about typo's and then do them, themselfs.
:)
Hendrata Jul 2nd 2009 11:14AM
themselves, not themselfs
Pandalicious Jul 2nd 2009 12:58PM
Personally, I'd rather not see a race change. It would be nice if we could just declare a new allegiance. Humans fighting for the Horde, Orcs with Alliance. THAT would be truly epic.
Worcester Jul 2nd 2009 3:22PM
Let's just do away with the races all together. How about we just make it the Red people vs. the Blue people?
Personally, I think players who want to keep their race but change faction want to keep their "pretty" Human or Night Elf avatars, but also want to be "cool" for being in the Horde.
Sorry, you can't always have it both ways. I wish Blizzard would make people live with their choices a bit more, but perhaps this change will cause some of the trouble-making players in my faction to go back to where they belong.
Cogfizzle Jul 2nd 2009 8:09AM
I doubt it will have any Lore implications.
Consider realm transfers - where's the lore behind my level 80 Orc Hunter appearing in the game world complete with a bag of gold, a bunch of mounts, exalted reputation with the Horde, having done all the quests... etc etc etc.
Players who care about Lore have so many fundamental objections to this I think they're simply going to be ignored. It's a game mechanic change that will just happen through account management exactly like with realm transfer. The Lore lovers are going to have to use some of their vaunted 'imagination' to just deal with it, I'm afraid.
PS. I play on an RP realm. I have no problem with this at all, and I welcome it. You simply re-invent a new backstory, a new character, and you're done. It's not a big deal at all.
The question of reputations and what low level quests are available remains valid, though. Will quests be mapped 1-1 with each other? If you complete the 'go get Cactus Apples' quest in Valley of Trials will that automatically tick off the 'get some baskets of wine' quest in Elwyn?
DaemonRai Jul 2nd 2009 11:15AM
Highly doubtful that quests would be matched 1 to 1 since Horde and Alliance don't have the same number of quests. You can just look at the Loremaster achievement requirements for the two sides and see that.
longtoothwolfs Jul 2nd 2009 1:33PM
I'm really looking forward to the change as well. I play on an RP realm for a reason and I feel I'm heavily invested in the lore. Was before WoW started...or as much as one could be.
Still, I created a human warlock and drove him through almost 80 levels. I eventually realized that the backstory I had made for him was meant for a mage. Conversely, I had made a blood elf mage that I eventually realized should have a been a lock given his views on things. I would love the opportunity to switch these two so that their stories made a little more sense to me.
Now if only we could change names when we changed sides.
Mynarc Jul 2nd 2009 8:11AM
I'm just going to treat it as a kinda of retcom but of my toon's backstory rather than a whole swapping factions. so rather than being a nightelf druid he is now a tauren druid.
Nice and easy. No fuss, until someone recognises the name asa someone they were ganked by >.>
sakijaki Jul 2nd 2009 8:12AM
i would rather have it be quick and painless, some people, like me, have become....sick of one side. while i am currently in the process of leveling yet another 80, if i could pay the fee and wham bam thank you maam im done, the would much better for me. as i could go straight to raiding again.
Sengir Jul 2nd 2009 8:12AM
It would have been so much cooler to have races switch sides, ie blood elf to Alliance or gnome to horde. As it stands, we have an excellent story-based reason for switching - the Argent Dawn/Argent Crusade, whose membership includes members of both factions.
As it stands, switching races is a stretch.