The (lack of) reality in the Caverns of Time
by Mike Schramm 
Jul 6th 2009 at 9:00PM
I've always considered the Caverns of Time to be like the theme park of Azeroth -- as we've discussed before, there aren't really any reasons to go to some of those instances in the first place, and the whole thing seems just so ludicrous. If we wipe, or we don't go in there, and Thrall isn't able to escape Durnholde or Arthas isn't able to murder Stratholme or any of the other premises they have set up, then wouldn't the world as we know it change? It seems like fan service -- Blizzard wants us to visit these great parts of lore, and it just seems to me like they've cooked up a weak story around getting us there.Which is why I was surprised to read this post over on Mystic Chicanery. They argue that the Caverns of Time are actually the most "real" of all the instances in the game. If we go into Utgarde Pinnacle, for example, and murder King Ymiron, there's no reason why he should be in there again the next time we head in. And yet he is -- we can go in and murder him time and time again, doing the same thing, and getting loot every single time. But in CoT, there's a logical explanation for why the instances are always the same: to the people we're encountering in the instances, it's the first time we've met them. From the outside world, the CoT instances may seem strange (the first time I was in Durnholde, we wiped with Thrall, and I jokingly checked with my guild to see if Thrall was still standing in Orgrimmar, alive and well -- he was), but inside the continuity of those instances, they work.
Of course, we do still get different loot from it every time, as the MC post notices. But it is quite a thought: even though the Caverns of Time instances are the ones in the game that seem to least need us messing around in there, they also might just be the most logical.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Fan stuff, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding, Lore, Bosses
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
sixers2329 Jul 6th 2009 9:07PM
The caverns of time instances are my favorite. They always feel much more epic and important than the other instances and bring something new to the game. I found it really fun to go back into EPL and see the zone unplagued along with stratholme. Blizzard should make the next cot instance stormgarde.
Joshua Meadows Jul 6th 2009 9:56PM
They're my favorite instances as well and were single-handedly the things I was looking forward to the most when Burning Crusade was announced.
Magicprince Jul 7th 2009 3:55AM
these are my favorite instances too, and if i want to think what happen if i wipe, then what happen when i wipe in MC, the fire lord will take over the world?, or if i wipe in ulduar, we all will die? all instances are the same, when you wipe you are the unlucky group of heroes, and when you don't, you are the one who ended the evil era.
Drow Jul 7th 2009 9:42AM
I agree like the others. They are the best. Each one when coming out was unique and vary from traditional instances, each with a different twist. Maybe what attracts me so much to them was the fact it was a fan service? I am a huge Warcraft lore fan, played a lot of WC2 and WC3, so when I first heard of WoW being Warcraft in first person it was exciting, then learning I can re-live some of the most exciting events from the lore's past was even better! I remember first going through them, I thought they were so awesome, and loved it when they were the daily. When I first hit 65 I think it was, I stopped leveling to get into a CoT group! '
I didn't mind wiping all night on Archimond either, because Hyjal was my favorite instance, seeing the world tree and doing the last battle of WC3: RoC again ;)
Then Strat came out. It was DOUBLE nice! First, we saw it in WC3, then we saw what happend to it later in Vanillia, NOW we get to see the WoW version again, but in it's WC3 goodness! I've always wondered what it would look like "normal" and what a cool town it would be, now I get to know :)
Gabriel Jul 7th 2009 10:53AM
"If we go into Utgarde Pinnacle, for example, and murder King Ymiron, there's no reason why he should be in there again the next time we head in."
You think the king of the Vyrkul is any less capable of a corpse run than the rest of us? Or maybe one of those fearing lock mobs gave him a soulstone. :)
danawhitaker Jul 6th 2009 9:15PM
Interesting post. I go into all instances with the mentality not that I'm necessarily murdering the end boss, merely...defeating them. Temporarily. They'll be back there to fight another day because I didn't technically kill them.
I love Caverns of Time though. I remember when I had just started playing the game, one of the first things that excited me about trying to get to max level was when one of my friends described Escape from Durnholde and Caverns of Time in great detail to me. The whole idea of going back in time and messing around and doing that sort of thing thrilled me to no end. It gave me a goal to lock onto as I ground through the levels. Ironically, on that first character, I never even did visit the place, as I got burned out and bored and didn't have as much time to invest in higher-level instances as I thought I would.
Now though, Escape from Durnholde is the BC instance I've completed the largest number of times on my new character, and I even go back and solo it on occasion to grind up my Keepers of Time rep.
To me, there's just something epic-feeling about going back and meddling in events and traveling in time. There are many things in the game that require intense use of suspension of disbelief - loot respawns, the fact that we "die" and come back, quest chains that everyone and their mom in the game has done a hundred and fifty million times, carrying the sheer amount of crap around with us in our bags that we do, the way we can mail items around in game...etc etc etc. It's no stranger to me to rationalize instances and time travel and suspend disbelief in regard to them.
yokumgang Jul 6th 2009 11:43PM
So for instance, every time you engage Cyanigosa after you beat her for the first time, you're imagining her yelling,"Violet Hold was merely a setback!"?
mattarin Jul 7th 2009 1:25AM
I remember when i first started playing this game and some quests asked you kill x amount of mobs to clear them out of certain areas and i would go back to that area and be like....wtf? i thought i cleared this area already why are there still mobs here....then i found out about the computer generation of this game and respawning of mobs so others players got to kill them too lol.
Bpow Jul 6th 2009 9:23PM
doesnt matter...still one of the coolest looking places in the game
Hal Jul 6th 2009 9:24PM
Meh. "Realistic." It's a word that has no place in a game where wolves drop mail boots, vultures drop glasses of cold milk, and spiders only drop one crunchy leg.
Soren Jul 6th 2009 9:32PM
/agree
I've always seen CoT as being a plot device, but it hasn't stopped me from enjoying the instances and lore experienced there. In fact, it's home to one of my favorite heroics, culling of stratholme, and I know I'm not alone in that opinion. As a side note though, I can't possibly deny the theme park feel. I always think I'm on a cheesy disney ride during the flight in. I feel the same way about Gun'Drak actually, but that's something I don't understand.
Sanguinefrozenboy Jul 6th 2009 9:54PM
I agree as well. There's so little realism in wow that any statement of a feeling of realism is fairly...lame.
Immersion is another story, but realism? For all we know every day we spend in this game is like ground hog's day and repeats itself over and over again. The portals that lead into each isntance, whether they be in the COT or not, could simply be a portal into another plane of time.
In this game, realism is a very bad word to use.
Vangelis Jul 7th 2009 4:58AM
I always refuse to equip weapons dropped by wolves etc.
After all it didn't do the originalowner any good... =/
Croe Jul 7th 2009 5:29AM
Yes, like you, I wonder why those vultures never get around to drinking their milk. Blizz sure slipped up on that one!
SEVENTH Jul 6th 2009 9:27PM
You go into most of the CoT instances because those people are trying to screw up the events of time (BM, those infinite corrupter were trying to kill medivh that would have screwed up the flow of time). We go into Culling of Strathholme because there are the infinite corrupter's there, and they would have killed Arthas, royally screwing up the timeline. We don't really have a reason to go into Hyjal... We go into Durnholde because there are infinite corrupter there wanting to kill Thrall.
There are reasons why we go into these places, it makes sense
splodesondeath Jul 6th 2009 10:45PM
Yes, that has been established. What's being said is that:
a) a regular boss will just get his ass handed to him over and over, and yet nothing ever changes, while the CoT instances are in the PAST, so therefore the changes are showing in the present.
b) the Caverns of Time, while giving a reason to go back, does not seem to be giving a good enough reason. People find that the reasoning is lackluster (you may feel otherwise)
c) if you wipe in the CoT, this will not directly impact the game (obviously). Orgrimmar and Thrall will still exist, the Orcs will still exist, the Scourge will not have completely taken over Stratholme, etc. Yet, these events can be repeated, because the timeline is constantly endangered (how I interpret it).
Soeroah Jul 6th 2009 9:29PM
For the purposes of the game, bosses can be killed multiple times to gain loot.
For the purposes of the story, each instance and raid only ever happens once, and your character never dies. From a story perspective, you don't kill a boss only to have them return the next day; they die and they stay dead, unless they appear again in the future, in a different area.
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Jul 6th 2009 9:53PM
Tempest Keep was merely a setb--*/shot*
Keleron Jul 6th 2009 9:34PM
CoT runs are my all time favorites. The "reality" of it is pretty silly to argue considering its a game, but the truth for all instances is that we can repeat them over and over again with no change at all to the outside world (in game).
I do agree with the article in that it does seem like they are really for fans of lore, but thats a great thing in a game.. giving people and instance they can enjoy running.
I would LOVE a CoT instance showing the scourge attacking SMC. Kael could be like Arthas is in CoS now or something like that. Everyone would be changed into High Elves instead of Humans maybe. Something like that.
Also a Draenai CoT run would be cool too. Though I don't play Alliance to know much about them. These would be fun ways to bring back some of our favorite baddies too.
Jonisjalopy Jul 6th 2009 9:59PM
Stuff like this is reason I first started this game. I wanted to geek out and see all of the cool places I had been to in WC2 and 3. But actually getting to play in the old environment, and in some cases with the original voice from the games? Too cool.
I just wish they would do more with the story. I honestly enjoy the lore with Nozdormu and the other flights over the Lich King and Old God stuff.