Ghostcrawler's hoping this answer "gets read," so we'll help. A player asks why Blizzard is worrying about armor penetration with the
Scourge Strike ability -- isn't, they ask,
ArPen getting removed in
Cataclysm like
we heard at BlizzCon? The answer is basically no: Armor Penetration rating is getting removed from gear (along with Block value, Defense, Attack Power, and a number of other gear stats), but Armor Penetration as a stat is not getting removed from the game. Talents and other abilties will still depend on removing and penetrating armor, even if your gear selection won't revolve around it. They'll still be balancing it, but as players choosing gear, it won't be a part of our calculations there.
Make sense? Just because you don't see, say, Attack Power on gear doesn't mean you won't have
an Attack Power number governing how much damage you do. It just means that the AP you have will come from stats like Agility and Strength (depending on your class and a number of other factors) rather than gear adding directly to AP. Of course, as Ghostcrawler says, these changes aren't even coming until
patch "4.0" and the
Cataclysm expansion, so there's still lots of gear choices and balancing to do before then.
Tags: ap, armor-penetration, armor-penetration-rating, attack-power, cataclysm, death-knight, discussion, forums, gear, gear-selection, gearing, ghostcrawler, scourge-strike, stat, stats, wow-cat, wow-cataclysm, wow-expansion, wow-patch-4.0
Filed under: Odds and ends, Buffs, Death Knight, Forums, Cataclysm
Oct 16th 2009 at 9:00AM 
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Joequincy Oct 16th 2009 9:09AM
This wouldn't be such a big deal if people actually payed attention to the things they whine about. This information has been around since Blizzcon.
Josin Oct 16th 2009 9:49AM
Exactly.
This isn't a huge revelation. No wonder GC decides to cut back on his presence. He's got questions like this to answer.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that there's a lot of game until Cataclysm.
Elmouth Oct 16th 2009 12:40PM
Its still as scary as it was back at blizzcon tho.
Simpler stats sure, but thats also less customization. I feel like they're gonna dumb the game down even more. Nothing but bare str/agi/stam/int/spirit on gear feel bland, its like we're moving back in time.
Sunaseni Oct 16th 2009 2:26PM
"Simplifying" doesn't mean "removing everything but base stats".
What they didn't say they were removing:
- Haste
- Crit
- Hit
- Block Chance
So we still have to balance around these stats and base stats. Doesn't sound too simplified to me, Elitist Jerks will still be around to calculate the relative value of these stats for each class.
tim Oct 16th 2009 4:33PM
@Elmouth,
You are precisely the type of "lalalalala I don't hear anything you're saying lalalalala" player that makes GC and other Blizzard reps repeat OVER AND OVER things that the rest of us have heard since BlizzCon.
Repeat after me: None of the Blizzard's reps have ever, EVER said "nothing but bare str/agi/stam/int/spirit on gear." In fact, we know that at least one stat, mastery, is being ADDED on to gear.
I don't mean to sound rude, but maybe you should start paying attention.
Mort Oct 17th 2009 5:48AM
@elmouth
Don't forget the Mastery stat and the change-one-stat-for-another thing... I forget the name. Call me an optimist, but I don't think Blizzard is going to leave the theorycrafters completely out in the cold. Add to this the Path of the Titans system -which they claim won't be afflicted by the be-all-end-all, "you need this or you won't be competitive in endgame raiding" rule set that the current glyph/talent system is suffering under- and I'd say were in for some interesting times once 4.0 hits us, if min/maxing is your cup of tea.
Joequincy Oct 16th 2009 9:14AM
Please clarify your definition of "more organized". If you think a JUST RELEASED game is not going to start being re-worked, balanced, and (to use your words) constantly changed, you've got a lot to learn.
And since when is Diablo 3 anything remotely competitive to an MMO? They're not the same category of game!
Besides, growing subscription numbers don't exactly spell out "dying" to me. Stop living in your fantasy world.
Tansari Oct 16th 2009 9:17AM
I have literally no-idea what you just said, that may relate to the amount of beer i had during the pub lunch >
Chris A Oct 16th 2009 9:17AM
If they didn't change class mechanics, people would get bored and stop playing. Blizz knows what they are doing.
Aaron Oct 16th 2009 9:27AM
Heh. Grass is always greener on the other side isn't it? =P
If I'm reading your comment correctly, it sounds like you are asking for some kind of completely unbalanced game with no change in mechanics what so ever. With developers making constant changes to our classes/mechanics/quests/loot tables/items/etc, it shows they actually care about this game. If everything was left completely untouched, then I would start questioning what's going on at the Blizzard camp.
Now don't think I'm not supporting your choice to leave WoW and head to greener pastures. Our community could use a little cleansing. LOL
draconova666 Oct 16th 2009 9:30AM
WoW IS dying because Blizzard has chosen to dumb down the game to the point that anybody can gear up with minimal effort and no understanding of their class mechanics. In BC and in classic WoW people had to carefully execute their abilities because if a mistake was made then the whole raid was dead. In WoTLK there is no such thing as true CC and raid bosses can be killed by massive AOE that is effectively infinite thanks to insane amounts of mp5 from support classes with buffing abilities to do so.
The removal of attunement was another blow to the integrity of true raiding. I recall the very long, annoying, gratifying questline associated with classic Onyxia and feel that it is ridiculous to have the ability to just walk into a dungeon w/o any experience and manage to clear it due to unbalanced class mechanics (uber mp5, massive AOE, etc). The removal of attunement was done to appease our less active players and NOTHING more. You want easy then play Pac Man.
As far as Aion is concerned; yes the game will be going through changes BUT the stats as they are in the game today are simple and to the point. You don't have to consider 10,000 factors when choosing gear because the stats on the gear are very straight forward.
RetPallyJil Oct 16th 2009 9:33AM
So piss off and go play Aion. What are you doing here, other than making yourself look like an ass?
crschmidt Oct 16th 2009 9:34AM
If you're not interested in playing WoW, don't play. If you're not interested in reading about WoW related stuff, don't read wow.com. Some of us enjoy the game, and will continue to do so, and no amount of your kvetching will change that, whether WoW is 'dying' or not, in your eyes or anyone else's. Telling people to go play a different game on a *WoW related website* is just silly.
TL;DR: Stop trolling.
Killchrono Oct 16th 2009 9:43AM
"As far as Aion is concerned; yes the game will be going through changes BUT the stats as they are in the game today are simple and to the point. You don't have to consider 10,000 factors when choosing gear because the stats on the gear are very straight forward."
Um, you realise that's exactly what Blizz is doing, right? Simplifying the stats so you don't have to worry about those 10,000 factors?
Also, attunements sucked. The only good attunement quest was Alliance-side Ony, and that was only because of the scene in the castle. Everything else was just one epic grind with little to no story justification, running dungeons or raids you would probably end up doing a dozen more times after you finish the quest and get sick of anyway.
eric Oct 16th 2009 9:46AM
So you want gameplay with extensive insurmountable barriers but your gearing choices to be easy?
Honestly though, Blizzard is smart to make sure the barrier to raiding stays relatively low. Else, they will end up like Everquest. It took so long to build up the AA points and gear that eventually your raiders became irreplaceable.
But, that aside, gear doesn't mean you can raid in WoW. It still takes skill and no amount of gear can fix a lack of skill. The new ez-mode gear just means someone can gear up in 3-4 months and be ready to join a casual guild that raids 2-3 nights a week and have a shot downing normal mode Anub-Rekan. Teh Hardcorz can work on Heroics and farm achievements, after all, those achievements are irreplaceable but the gear always will be.
Onyxia? Honestly, I hope people are able to down her on the first shot. Its one of the old fights in WoW, everyone should know the strat for that fight. The only change was picking up an elite. Really though, that is what WoW raiding is about. People knowing what they are suppose to do, not facerolling the keyboard.
Jonathan Oct 16th 2009 9:53AM
@eric
Yeah, you seem to get the overall point. I play casually and I know I'm never going to be rolling in all epic current tier gear because I really can't be arsed to take the time to do so. That said, I shouldn't be locked out of all end-game content just because I don't feel like dedicating twenty hours a week to the game. Ten mans and "welfare epics" aren't watering down the end game like people like this joker up there thinks, it just opens up fun content for people who haven't got the time for dedicated raiding. It's a game, not a job.
All the elitists can keep their server firsts and what-not, I just want to have fun. I'd prefer to do so without being talked down to by snot-nosed punks whose prime achievement in life is downing an imaginary dragon.
Bravofox Oct 16th 2009 10:02AM
If "Dumbing down" is the term we want to use....it actually opens the game up to more people, thus increasing the player base, hardly turning WoW into a dying game. Simple fact, the casual gamers far out-weigh the number "Hardcore" players. Blizzard is catering to the masses, which is why their subscription numbers continue to grow.
You simply can't please everybody, but (let us be realistic) you try to please the largest number of people you can - even if it makes a few people mad.
Have a good day....and lucky for you there are many more MMORGS to go try out :)
Jon Do Oct 16th 2009 10:29AM
@draconova666
"WoW IS dying because Blizzard has chosen to dumb down the game ..."
"As far as Aion is concerned ... the stats as they are in the game today are simple"
I LOLed.
Throck Oct 16th 2009 11:54AM
Don't be too hard on draconova666 for not using the Reply button. Maybe it doesn't show up for him because he didn't complete the attunement yet.
"In my day, we had to use a text browser and tab to the Add Comment link! You casuals get a welfare button marked Reply that you can click on! That's another blow to the integrity of trolling! Blah blah blah not as many graveyards blah blah blah six hours to raid blah blah blah annoyance equals valuable experience blah blah blah..."
Como Oct 16th 2009 2:57PM
Downgrade me for being an elitist but at least here me out. I think they are dumbing the game down too much, and let me elaborate on that. Since my main is a rogue I will talk from that perspective as it the class I am most familiar with. When 4.0 comes out this is what rogues will have to deal with. Step one, get to hit cap w/e it may be at lv 85 it doesn't matter. Step two stack agi (maybe an 3rd step for Exp but that is not nearly as important, again exceptions exist but I am keeping it simple). It takes out any min maxing option that hardcore raiders would like to pursue. Lets be realistic you don't need to know what gear is BiS (best in slot for the casuals) to pursue easy modes, even on 25 man. If you are constantly picking up gear from the current tier and even have the most basic understanding of stats (aka- get to the yellow hit cap, it's important) you will breeze through all the easy mode content. Now with ArP hardcore raiders had the option to regem, and min max their gear for maximum performance. My issue is I have no way to do this now, and having a way to do this takes nothing away from the casuals or people who don't want to think about their gear except they are not the best. If these changes were implemented with 3.3 all you would need to do is run heroics for a day, maybe 2, farm your t9, set up your talents for a rupture-less cycle and your on auto pilot; spamming sinister strike and eviscerate, with slice in there every 30 sec for top dps. Why can't I put in the extra time to look into my gear to make me get a few extra dps out of it. And that's my big issue, removing stats is not making the game more accessible to people; what it is doing is not allowing the people who enjoy min-maxing to do it anymore. So unless there are more changes coming to the talent system, which in all reality is a definite, I hate the new stat changes, Blizz can come around and make us hardcore raiders happy w/o ruining it for the casuals but they refuse to say no at times even when changes like this will have minimum effects on them. If you wanna down heroic endgame bosses, you should have to think about it a bit, that's why they are there, for us who want the challenge.