Advancing the battlegrounds
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 17th 2009 at 3:00PM
An interesting thought, for sure, and probably true -- while there are situations where I aim to be by myself in the battlegrounds (if I'm on my rogue and just want to hunt down some clothies), things almost always go better in there when you work as a team. So here's an idea: why not take the rewards implemented in the LFG system and apply them to better behavior in the battlegrounds?
Certainly, cross-server battlegrounds was an inspiration for the cross-server LFG system -- you can jump in any battleground now almost any time you want. But it'd be good to bring some of the theory back across the aisle, so to speak. Maybe you could choose a role when entering a battleground, and label yourself as offense or defense, so the team could know where to go and when. Maybe veteran battleground players could get the ability to set waypoints or otherwise direct the team. And it would be nice to see Blizzard give rewards for doing it right -- maybe tokens for topping the points meters, or an extra buff when you're working with a team rather than off dying on your own.
These are all ideas for after 3.3, of course -- we're getting tons of nice new upgrades to the LFG system already, and Blizzard will probably have their hands full working out the bugs on those. But let's not forget the other big group activity in the game -- while guild leveling will likely bring at least a few improvements, it will be nice to see even simple upgrades like vote kicking added to the BGs as well.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Quests, Making money, Battlegrounds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Mr. Tastix Nov 17th 2009 3:10PM
I have to agree. People in Battlegrounds DON'T FREAKEN LISTEN. It's also going to mean MUCH more to win when we're being awarded Arena Points for the PVP dailies.
MazokuRanma Nov 17th 2009 4:40PM
I don't agree with adding arena points to BGs. I'm not much of an arena player either, so that's not my basis, I just feel that arenas take a different skill set that doesn't apply to BGs and just giving people the arena points for them really makes no sense to me.
Personally, I think they'd be much better off adding some form of BG points with their own form of costs to purchase the gear, just as right now you can get them from badges, pure honor, or a combination of arena points and honor. It would just add an additional method of BG points and honor, probably more than arenas but less than the pure honor option. I just don't like the fact that this will let those people who show up and just stand around doing nothing for honor in places like AV to get better gear. I suppose though that since the rating requirements stand, those people will at least be limited there.
Really, I'm just looking forward to rated BGs, so that the higher level rewards can be obtained meaningfully in a BG setting as opposed to arenas. They're implementing a sort of stop-gap measure that I don't really agree with, but at least I know they intend to do things right in the future.
Thander Nov 17th 2009 6:39PM
I think you are confused about how the rated BGs will be. The existing system will probably stay, so individual players can continue to get previous season gear. Just that now there will be an option to make big PvP teams for BGs. I think BGs are going to be much harder to coordinate than arena. The BGs have a huge variety of locations and objectives. The good teams will be able to split and combine 5-man "arena" teams as needed. That's very hard to do well in the middle of a match. It's the kind of organization in the military. Each level helps as part of the whole but is self-sufficient on its own. Everyone has to know what to do when they are part of the whole and what to do when they are on their own. This is way above arena. Rated BG teams should be getting arena quality gear.
Mr. Tastix Nov 17th 2009 11:22PM
They do have BG gear and BG tokens, but AFAIK there's no level 80 gear. From what I read there will also be a limit on the Arena Points you can actually get via the PVP daily.
Being on an RP realm I look forward to it, I don't get to PVP much because I know very little people who actually WANT to (re-rolling on a "normal" PVP server during Summer holidays for PVP purposes though).
Andrew Nov 18th 2009 1:04AM
Maybe people don't listen because they know better than to run uselessly from one place to another and not achieve anything. I often disregard a self-styled "leader's" instructions if I believe I know better.
Don't go in solo? I do exactly that - because thats you how stealth ninja a node in AB. It's situations like that when I don't need backup - in fact backup is often detrimental in those cases because it only lets the enemy know what we are doing.
Don't fight on the road? I WILL fight on the road if I believe it is to the benefit of the team. Like stopping a resto druid from reaching his friends and helping them to take a base.
Don't attack a heavily defended base? I will! Because I can get in, annoy the enemy, and then get out, goading them into following me and stopping them from working like a team. Don't underestimate human nature - I've had enemies chase me relentlessly trying to get revenge, and all that time it is the enemy who is uncoordinated and not achieving their objectives.
epic Nov 18th 2009 12:49PM
and you are the reason there is so much wrong with random pvpers, you don't know better, rogues are hardly invincible and you can't see what you can't see...while you were off getting handled alone another objective was taken that could have used your support...bads are bad
Mr. Tastix Nov 18th 2009 5:27PM
The problem I see with your reasoning Andrew is that you come off as arrogant, thinking you're better than anyone else and no one deserves to work with you. There's a time to go solo (Rogues make good scouts, for instance) and a time to work as a team.
Just because you can go it alone doesn't mean you can't give feedback. But NOBODY does, which is why PUG groups fail. People rush in and do whatever they like, don't tell anyone where the FC is at or what base is being overrun and instead, say nothing at all. Then blame everyone else when their faction loses.
There's a difference between leading and informing people of certain details. Telling the rest of the team where the flag carrier is, where the majority of the enemy is, is a base is being overrun - these aren't taking leadership, this is REPORTING to your TEAM.
If you wanna win get your head out of your ass and work as a damn team. You don't go to a 25-man raid thinking you can solo it and you're better than the rest, do you? Because, if you do, you're extremely naive. I believe WoW is about teamwork, regardless if you think so or not many aspects of the game take a great deal of teamwork.
Edmon Nov 17th 2009 3:10PM
Mabey a "gear check" for the bg matchmaking. At least for resilience.
Xaverius Nov 17th 2009 3:18PM
So people need to farm heroics to get their PvP sets instead? And here I thought PvP was the way to get PvP gear ...
Edmon Nov 17th 2009 3:22PM
I meant more to put evenly matched lvl players in the same bg's
Peepo Nov 17th 2009 3:24PM
lol... how do you get pvp gear without doing bgs without pvp gear?... gear checking pvp?... lol...
Xaverius Nov 17th 2009 3:27PM
Ah. Could be a good idea - but it also means that some of the longer BGs might take - well - even longer. Not to mention the queue times could get a little out of hand.
Kanap Nov 17th 2009 3:40PM
you use the level 78 sets that are crafted.
MazokuRanma Nov 17th 2009 4:35PM
This also sounds easily exploitable. People would wear their PvE sets, get matched into a 0 resilience BG, and then swap to their Relentless gear and destroy people.
Unless the gear check also scanned your bags and matched you based on the total resilience value you were carrying and not just wearing, I don't see this working.
Nick S Nov 17th 2009 5:53PM
Rating would be better. Just a persistent seasonal rating like the Arenas.
Mopo Nov 17th 2009 7:02PM
Resilience is not what it is cracked up to be. When I get crit for 10k+ when I have 900 res, what is the point? People with a mix of PVE/PVP gear are topping the BG charts, which is just dumb. If I have a full set of decent PVP gear, I should be able to easily defeat someone that has higher iLevel PVE gear, but that does not happen. Depending on the class, it is almost impossible for me to kill a well geared PVE healer. Their ticks heal more than what I can dish out in damage and they seem to have a endless mana pool. So, that gear check is pointless.
Dragoniel Nov 18th 2009 8:37AM
PvP gear is only good for duels and arenas.
In BG's and open world I always use PvE gear - as a mage, my role is not to tank, but to nuke from the back of the team, so resilience is effectivey useless. In PvP gear I don't do nearly as much damage and run oom in seconds. I'n PvE gear I can strike for consecutive 10-14k crits on medium resilience target in 6 seconds setup time while keeping mana shield up and not worrying of running oom from taking 2 hunter hits through it.
(cutaia) Nov 17th 2009 3:11PM
They already started trying to encourage strategy with things like the additional honor when near a flag (less road fighting, yay!). There's definitely some additional things they could do to further this from a game-design perspective.
However, the one thing affecting battleground teamwork more than anything if you ask me is the attutude of the "experts." The second some douche starts screaming, "YOU GUYS SUCK! THIS IS WHY THIS SERVER FAILS AT PVP. GO AWAY NOOBS," I have to admit that my motivation drops to zero. To those people: Your warcraft skills may be epic, but your people skills suck.
I implore you...if you actually do have some sound strategy advice in battlegrounds, get it out there at the beginning of the battle, don't be a complete ass if someone screws up a tiny bit, and try and give a little positive encouragement when someone does good. Sometimes that makes all the difference in how your advice is received and followed.
Xaverius Nov 17th 2009 3:20PM
I wholeheartedly agree.
Every time someone starts yelling at me about how I shouldn't be trying to take back the middle I get distracted. I end up doing the opposite just for the glee of watching the nerdrage. I guess that makes me a troll?
But seriously though - encouragement for jobs well done > yelling at stuff done wrong.
Karilyn Nov 17th 2009 3:21PM
"YOU GUYS SUCK! THIS IS WHY THIS SERVER FAILS AT PVP. GO AWAY NOOBS"
I've noticed that more often than note, the people who are screaming that are the pentacle of worthless individuals in a BG. They tend to be the ones that never even attempt to cap a tower, or defend a tower, or grab the flag, or protect the flag carrier. Yada yada.
They are just the person who is busy e-peening over trying to have the highest damage and/or killing blows for the match by spending all their time in the roads.