Justifying the tiered badge system
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 19th 2009 at 1:00PM
Not that he needs to, but Bornakk steps up on the forums to justify exactly this kind of tiered system. Players complain that Ulduar is "useless" now that you can obtain its badges from lots of different places, but Bornakk says this system is definitely preferable to what Blizzard did in vanilla and BC, which was requiring new raiders to run through all of the old content before seeing the new and shiny stuff. They don't want the old content to sit useless (and it's not -- lots of guilds are still running Ulduar and even Naxx for the hard modes and achievements), but after the high-end raiders have their fun, it's important to get everyone else up to speed as well.
Bornakk admits it's "a tough line to walk," divining which of the two systems (straight raiding vs. badge earning) works better in which places. But Blizzard will never make everyone completely happy, and I think they've done a much better job this expansion in terms of balancing the need to show off all of their content against the need to get players working in their own ways towards gear rewards. In Cataclysm, it certainly seems like endgame won't be as big a focus -- in the beginning, anyway, we'll all be looking at the old world and what's changed back then. It'll be interesting to see if they incorporate the tiered badge system in the rest of the game as well.
Filed under: Patches, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
jishdefish Nov 19th 2009 1:05PM
I for one, love the badge system, I just wish the levels of badges covered more of a variety of gear. (For example, weapons.)
Barinthos Nov 19th 2009 1:08PM
I too would like to see weapons included in the badge system. Or at least an "upgraded" version of a weapon you have to first get in a raid. Much like they're doing with the armor and the "Sanctified" armor that was mentioned in a previous article.
Skonged Nov 19th 2009 1:23PM
Same here. The badge system keeps hardcore players on their toes and casuals geared enough to see content they might have never ever ever saw.
My rogue is 78 now and will ding out 80 in 2 days. Just in time for 3.3 patch to drop and then its cross realm instance runs until I get my full tier 9 set and some accessories. With the upgraded badges in place I can join my guild on new content in a matter of days.
matt Nov 19th 2009 2:28PM
I like the badge system and other system that create more than one way to get gear. But 5 different types of badge for one expansion is just silly and overly complex. I can see a argument for 2 or 3 but more than that and it just becomes a mess. Which in many way it currently is. That is not to say it doesn't work it does, but not as well as it could. I would say going forward better to keep the same badges for two raid levels rather than one.
joggoms Nov 19th 2009 2:29PM
I'd like to see them go 'all-in' with the badge system and forget about normal loot drops. Maybe drop an item here or there, but we should be able to get everything we need with badges and not be stuck running an instance 50 times for a piece of gear...when you get to that point, you're no longer battling monsters or dragons but the greatest boss of all, RNG.
And I don't care that you had to run Scholo 7,000 times for your old school loot. We don't have to kill our fun just because it was that way 4 years ago.
Alexa Nov 19th 2009 2:34PM
I'd love to see some
Alexa Nov 19th 2009 2:35PM
comment system fail...
I'd love to see some love for elemental shaman in emblem gear... :(
devilsei Nov 19th 2009 2:58PM
What's the difference? Essentially they are just doing what they did in TBC to begin with. Grind heroics for badges, get close to current gear. But I guess no-one remembers when they added Black Temple-level gear to badge vendors when the Sunwell was current.
The only key difference is that we have a whole new set of badges to grind with each patch, and honestly, it gets annoying. I hate having to constantly change badges into heroism ones just to grab heirloom gear, and honestly, they should of just stuck with the "one badge for all" system, and increase the amount of badges dropped by each tier of raiding to compensate for the increased cost, so:
Naxx/Sarth0D/Maly: 2-3 badges.
Ulduar/Sarth1-2D: 4-5 badges.
ToC 10/25N: 5-7 badges.
ToC 10/25H: 7-10badges.
ICC: 12-15badges.
Very rough idea, but you get the idea.
And for the love of F***ING GOD! Add some damn weapons into the vendors, my luck with raiding has been bs, done Ony and ToC 10 and 25 several times each, and not once have I seen a single 2hander for my pally, not once. I'm stuck using the Edge of Ruin from ToC 5man, and im getting sick of it. True the Quel'Delar questline will help this, but for gods sake Ive had to sit out from H-ToC 10 runs because of my weapon (I can push 4-4.5k when the gods smile on me, but my dps sucks in the beginning beast fights because I'm busy attacking kobolds instead of the boss).
uncaringbear Nov 19th 2009 9:48PM
The Argent Tournament is a great place to get your starter epic weapons. Yes, it's a different thing to grind, but I was able to get a weapon for my pally in a relatively short amount of time.
devilsei Nov 19th 2009 10:32PM
The issue is, uncaring, that those are more of a vanity weapon, since anyone should be more than able to run H-ToC 5man, which contains lvl 219 weapons, equivalent to Ulduar, so the lvl200 tourny weapons aren't worth the month+ grind, unless you are so unlucky that you cant get a single weapon drop.
devilsei Nov 19th 2009 10:36PM
Just thought of this (would of edited it in if I could), but why not make those tourny weapons be BoA? No one is gonna waste the time it takes just to get one on their alt, when they could easily talk their guild into doin a naxx run or HToC, so they might as well be BoA so people actually will use them.
blondie Nov 23rd 2009 10:48AM
@devilsei
"What's the difference? Essentially they are just doing what they did in TBC to begin with. "
The difference between what they did then and what they do now that that now, you have to work for the badges. When Blizzard released the badgegear in the Burning Crusade, everyone and their mother had a load of Badges of Justice, because they were useless, unless you desperatley needed primal nether.
Now there is not a single person with an Emblem of Frost, and those that doesn't have all the Triumph loot need to work for that.
Even if it seems like it, Blizzard doesn't want to give everything away for free.
Mr. Tastix Nov 20th 2009 5:31AM
Weapons would be an awesome addition, even if they're not as great as weapons obtainable via raids (which I'd prefer as it means casual raiders could still get decent weapons whilst raiding would still give some decent benefit(s)).
toddcore Nov 19th 2009 1:10PM
I've noticed that Mike frequently refers to this large, vaguely defined player base that's still doing organized guild runs of Naxx for progression. I have to wonder where he's getting the numbers that lead him to use words like "lots", or if he's just assuming that because his guild is still in Naxx lots of guilds must be.
This isn't really meant as an insult to Mike, I'm just curious every time I see him allude to this mysterious large group of players getting together to progress through Naxx.
swimstarguy Nov 19th 2009 1:24PM
I always assumed they could just look and see how many people are accessing various instances since they host them.
I could be wrong through, I really don't know anything about the subject. ^_^;
Jordan Nov 19th 2009 1:25PM
Look no further than the "Downed" column in Guildwatch; lots of people seeing/clearing that content for the first time.
(cutaia) Nov 19th 2009 1:46PM
My guild just recently had most of our playerbase hit 80. Guess where we've started our progression raiding. We hope to down KT in the next week. Then...on to OS, EoE and Ulduar!
Sure...these badges make it easy to skip content, but to assume that new 80s have no interest in seeing Naxx or Ulduar before loading up on T9 is just silly.
Besides...are you really asking for statistics to back up a vague word like "lots?" Semantics much?
Tina Marie Nov 19th 2009 1:51PM
My guild still runs Naxx once a week. Every once in a while, I stop scheduling it, and then I start getting tells - "Why aren't we doing Naxx this week?" - so it goes back on the calender.
Mostly, we use it for alts and trying out new healers/tanks. This week, our lineup includes a fresh DK tank who's been DPSing for a while but just finished putting together his tank set, a tree who dinged 80 yesterday and wants to practice healing in a 10-man, and a holy priest who likely just needs some confidence. Throw in a few people who like coming just to because we're going, and some alts who need to try out new specs/new rotations, and you've got a 10-man.
So we keep going.
WoWie Zowie Nov 19th 2009 2:12PM
naxx = easy epics to DE and plenty o' emblems on your alts
Bronwyn Nov 19th 2009 8:20PM
I've noticed that people who view the "outdated" content as, well, outdated, tend to think that everyone else does too and that there's something wrong if you aren't farming TOGC.
There are plenty of people still running Naxx and the lower-level content.